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God and Country

I have created a thread around the existence of Christian nationalism within the body politic. And here it is. Your mistake, and I’ll assume it’s only a mistake, is to think my problem is with Christianity, when it’s clearly with nationalism. Do you understand nuance? I hope it’s not me you’re calling hateful of Jews and Christians.

It’s not easy being a human being. Many people rely on spiritual beliefs to get them through a day, to get them through a life. I was raised a Roman Catholic. As I told you earlier, I spent years exploring the inner traditions, not the outer beliefs, of many faiths. Loved reading the works of Christian mystics. St. John of the Cross. If you want to understand the “dark night of the soul”, his are the works to read. St. Teresa of Avila. Read the mystics of all faiths. I wanted to hear their experiences. I wanted those experiences myself. Wanted to know God personally. Decided to seek out a religious order to join, believe the monastic life would be best for me, in this lifetime. I was not satisfied with the outer faith I was raised in, including the first 7 grades taught by nuns. I needed to know more. I wanted to know God.

In the long run, I did not live a monastic life, but never stopped seeking the truth about the nature of reality, the purpose of human life, the common thread at the core of all faiths. And this is the man you think is brainwashing people here to hate Jews and Christians?? There was, there is, no hatred at all in my heart for Jews or Christians. None.

As noted, for the purpose of thinking kindly toward you, I will assume this is all a case of mistaken understanding on your part. I’ve been a seeker since I was a child. We are all in the same boat. It simply is not easy being human. I considered once, that since humans may be the only animal that experiences “existential angst”, that is, knowing we are going to die, that perhaps faith was evolutions way of helping such a self reflecting animal to deal with that realization of mortality. I still wonder about that, but personal spiritual experiences suggest otherwise to me.

I just hope it’s not me you are calling hateful toward people of faith, Jews, Christians, seekers like myself. I don’t like that at all. You have no right, at all, to judge me in such a manner. Shame on you for spewing so much venom toward myself and others. You can read the words of many, many priests and ministers speaking out against Christian nationalism.
 
Project 2025 is something that normal real Americans should become familiar with. It’s the vision of what many Christian nationalists want to implement in a second Trump term

This is the type of thing that bears repeating.


I’m sure thinking people in this forum can see where all the anger and hatred is coming from. Does not have to be like this. This does not have to stand. At all. Someone needs to grow up and stop making believe the anger and hatred is stemming from those who actually care, are actually concerned. If it requires self understanding, let it be so…

 
Good, we’ll try to keep it that way.
Never said you were the enemy, or the people you call your friends. Again, it’s not easy being human. Unlike some, I don’t blame innocent people who I believe are just sadly mistaken, and taken advantage of by a cynical con artist demagogue. I get it that people, many of our citizens, are disaffected and ripe for a Strong Man promising to fix everything.
I stay silent? How do you know? Again, every one of my high school best friends, the guys I hung out with, were Jewish. My neighborhood then was 90% Jewish. Their parents and grandparents were Eastern European Holocaust survivors. I thought of them, first, on 10/7/23. And I said, exactly that, in the Israel/Hamas thread, following 10/7. I thought of the thousands of Holocaust survivors still alive in Israel, and how they must have felt: “Never again”. Some of those high school mates, and their families, remain my friends, decades after high school.

Again, we can talk, you are not my enemy. But do not tell me what you’re telling me in the last paragraph I’m quoting of yours. You do not know me, you are as wrong as wrong can be. Those Jewish friends and their families took me into their lives long ago.

Here, within this thread, and within this moment in history, things evolved and I do take issue with Netanyahu’s slaughter of innocent Palestinians. Are you going to criticise me for that? Really? Are you saying I cannot be concerned for human life?

In mentioning the protests, I’m reminded of the Vietnam War protests of my youth. I’m not surprised to see youthful idealism enraged by what they are seeing in Gaza, on the news, on social media. And they are all in community, on their respective colleges. Making it far easier to organize and gather together. Not a surprise, in those circumstances, given their youth, that this kind of anti-war movement would develop. Young people will always be moved by seeing the horrors of war. Back in the days of mass protests against the Vietnam War, it was images like this that galvanized myself, and many in my generation. We thought: “are we doing this?!”.


Same today. The images from Gaza are galvanizing our youth on college campuses. Whatever else, it’s no surprise.

Been thinking a lot lately of demonstrations, then and now.

But, I am disgusted at how Jewish Americans, and Jewish students are being treated. There is no excuse for such behavior. Inexcusable, and they are only hurting themselves and galvanizing many other Americans against their encampments.
 
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We see the world differently. When you first returned awhile back, I read nothing you wrote, including replies to me directly. I expected the worse if I did. Most likely returning to that stance, no hard feelings toward you.

Christian nationalism has nothing to do with my response to 10/7, or how I feel about Netanyahu’s response to 10/7. They are two entirely different subjects. You seem to be doing a lot of talking past me. Edit: Christian nationalism revolves around the notion of whether America should have a state religion, Christianity. I’m not aware of actual specific calls to that effect, but Christian nationalists believe America is a Christian nation, and it should be part of our national identity. But, we have freedom of religion, freedom of faith in the United States. We really do not need to elevate one faith above all others.

I don’t want this:


But, it has nothing to do with the events on college campuses presently. We have freedom of religion. We don’t need one faith elevated above all others. Don’t know where you’re getting “turn America into Russia”, from, and I don’t care. Yes, I know the poster you’re thinking of, but don’t care, since you’re mixing two subjects in the college protests and Greene’s nonsense.

Look, your response to the Trump administration is your business, I don’t care. I have said, not to you, but repeatedly, on this forum, that one of the basic problems is that liberals and conservatives respond to the world differently. And it might profit us to look into that. For instance, some studies say there are actual difference in how our brains are wired. That’s beyond me, but as one example: liberals tend to be less apprehensive of change. Conservatives tend to be more attentive to threats. At Joe “bag of donuts” suggestion, I started a thread on that subject, in 2016.

I do realize that when members here describe Trump in the many negative ways seen, that you, as a Trump supporter, will understandably take that as talking down to you, since it’s can be interpreted by you as “you are too ‘stupid’ to recognize Trump for what he is”. That would bother me too, and I went that direction myself at times, so I am sorry for getting personal at anytime, with you, or with anyone here.

But, that’s about it. How many innocent children killed in Gaza now? That’s why there are protests on American campuses. (But people can certainly explore if there are other elements besides students and professors involved). That’s why I don’t agree with Netanyahu. I certainly have not forgotten what happened on 10/7. So go ahead and believe I am making excuses for terrible behavior.

I’m fine with what I stand for. I don’t require your approval. You don’t require my approval. So, back to status quo.
 
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One final observation, rather important from where I stand. If you regard yourself as a Christian nationalist, first, that is none of my personal business, and two, I don’t care. I have no stake in your choice of faith. If you are a Christian nationalist who believes the Christian faith should be elevated above other faiths in the United States, then we are not on the same page. It’s pretty simple. This isn’t complicated. Nobody said “look, Christian nationalists are attacking Jews at Columbia University”. No need to mix subjects. It’s about elevating Christianity to a sort of quasi-state religion. It’s OK that I don’t like that idea, and I do not have to show you Christian nationalists being kicked out of schools for attacking Jews.

The first Baptist meeting house in the United States was established in Providence, RI. The first Jewish synagogue in the United States was established in Newport, RI. The first Huguenot(French Protestants)) settlement was in East Greenwich, RI. Why? Because the founder of the colony of RI established freedom of religion in the colony. Roger Williams was far ahead of his time, and not just in establishing freedom of faith in the colony. I live where freedom of faith was first established in what would become the United States.

My objections to Christian nationalism has nothing to do with Jews being harassed on college campuses, and you are demonstrating that you do not even understand the concerns I am talking about, (and I did leave one more article describing the nature of my concerns), on that specific subject. The reason I thought this was a relevant thread subject for America in 2024. And I still do believe it is relevant to our body politic today, at this time. I probably expect it to play out and not succeed, if only because I don’t expect reactionary movements to transform the United States in the long run, but it’s part of our culture wars at the moment, and therefore relevant.

I do not need to connect the subject of Christian nationalism to pro Palestinian college protests. There is no reason to do so.

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It’s so much more, but I did not go into length describing my interpretation of the campus demonstrations. In fact, I’m still in the process of learning as much as I can about this. I know it spread like wildfire when Columbia called in cops. That can’t be surprising. I think we shut our campus down for at least a week following Kent State in 1972.

Anyway, I’m studying this, and attempting to learn more. I’m dredging up memories of the huge demonstrations, marchers on Washington, etc. during the Vietnam era, and in reading how it all started, I remember, yes, this is what happens on campuses when crackdowns occur. So, I am learning, and I do not need you telling me who I am, telling me what I stand for, telling me how much I’m on the wrong side. I do not need your permission to learn!! Bottom line: you do not have the right to paint a picture of me, and declaring “this is you”. I doubt I’ll allow you to trigger me again, but I sure am sick of it, lol…

You can stick to your own talking points without completely mischaracterizing my own.


You have a very bad habit of describing other poster’s points of view inaccurately, which at times has seemed more deliberate than a question of misunderstanding. You certainly did so here. But it’s OK. I don’t look at you as trolling 100% of the time, as some do, I’m sure you know.

But, I can’t allow myself to discuss issues with you. Since you misinterpret a great deal, it certainly is not fair to myself to essentially beat my head against the wind. Anyway, no hard feelings, you believe what you believe, you never needed my approval of your interpretations of many things discussed on this forum. Don’t expect many replies to your comments in the future, not personal, just tiring…
 
Whose protest are the “Jews will not replace us” dudes showing up to?


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And what about this guy?


Guy wears a “Camp Auschwitz” sweatshirt on Jan 6. Sounds like he’s really supportive of Jews. Right? I wonder who he voted for in 2020? And which political party parrots “Great Replacement Theory” and anti semitic nonsense like “globalists George Soros?” Just replace the name Soros with Rothchilds and you have the same racist language of the previous century.
 
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So God made Adam and Eve. They had two sons. Cain and Abel.

Then Eve had sex with her sons to keep procreation going?

So God's plan is for parents to have sex with their kids?



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So God made Adam and Eve. They had two sons. Cain and Abel.

Then Eve had sex with her sons to keep procreation going?

So God's plan is for parents to have sex with their kids?



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No no no, don't be disgusting. It's implied they had many more children. So the kids had sex with each other to procreate. See, much less disgusting!
 
So God made Adam and Eve. They had two sons. Cain and Abel.

Then Eve had sex with her sons to keep procreation going?

So God's plan is for parents to have sex with their kids?
Duh. Did you not read Genesis 19 : 30-38? That is how they roll in the Middle East. Even today the Middle East is the most real world incest, or as researchers more commonly term it "consanguineous relations", area on Earth.
 
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