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Goodbye Burke

LazyD said:
Normally I'm with you heyhey but I don't like the idea of getting rid of Burke. Yes, it will help the Jazz lose more this season, but it will create a hole @ point guard, and I'm not interested in having Mo Williams/JL3/Tinsley/Garrett playing the position while the Jazz have to spend another draft pick in search of the next point guard. Trading Burke is just ensuring spending another future draft pick on a point guard, and what if it doesn't work out? Burke appears to be a solid pick so far.
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We wouldn't need to spend another draft pick we could pick one up in FA and we still have the rights to Neto. Trading Burke would likely net us another pick not cost us one.
 
heyhey said:
We wouldn't need to spend another draft pick we could pick one up in FA and we still have the rights to Neto. Trading Burke would likely net us another pick not cost us one.
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Yeah, you could go free agent route, but if Burke is legit I just don't really like the idea of trading him away. If Burke is good, and it certainly looks like he is, he may be pretty hard to replace.
 
Nevermind they don't own this pick(oops)

Trey Burke and Marvin Williams
4
Steve Nash and 2017 Lakers first round pick

Jazz secure the worst record in the Nba(Nash is done) and get what will most likely be a good future pick
By trading Burke we land Parker/Wiggins. We can package their pick with GSW(and if necessary our own 2014 second round pick) to move up and get smart.

Lakers get to hold on to their Kobe comeback delusion a little longer
Kobe gets his "final shot" this year and next. They have their pg and they can use their 2014 mid first round pick to add depth. The money they save from Marvins expiring contract can be used in FA.

Jazz 2014/2015

Thibodeau

Smart Neto
Hayward Burks
Parker FA?
Favors Evans
Kanter Gobert
 
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I don't trade Burke. Not at all. He has "it". He is a leader. We haven't had a leader since Stock/Malone. He makes everyone better. We had only won 1 game before we came on. If we want to guarantee the tank, there are other ways to get there.

1 - Trade the vets. Marvin, Jefferson. Not sure what you can get for them.
2 - Give away Burks. Someone will take him for a future first.
3 - Trade away Kanter.

You do those things, I don't care if you have Michael Jordan. You aren't winning.

Your starting lineup is:

Burke
Hayward
Evans
Favors
Gobert/Biedrens

with NO bench. NONE.

Limit mins to 32 mins a game. Done. Not a single win the rest of the year.
 
This means, going into next year, you have Burke, Favors, Evans, Lucas and Gobert under contract. That is less than 19 million on the books. No one will offer Hayward any type of deal. Even if they offer him the max, Utah can EASILY match. Let's say you get nothing but future firsts for Kanter and Burks, nothing in the 2014 draft.

Can you imagine a real core 4 of Burke, Hayward, Favors and Jabari? Or Wiggins? And NO bad contracts? You are long, athletic, can shoot, play defense...Yikes. And you have a leader. I think Burke is the last person you trade off this team.
 
green said:
I don't trade Burke. Not at all. He has "it". He is a leader. We haven't had a leader since Stock/Malone. He makes everyone better. We had only won 1 game before we came on. If we want to guarantee the tank, there are other ways to get there.

1 - Trade the vets. Marvin, Jefferson. Not sure what you can get for them.
2 - Give away Burks. Someone will take him for a future first.
3 - Trade away Kanter.

You do those things, I don't care if you have Michael Jordan. You aren't winning.

Your starting lineup is:

Burke
Hayward
Evans
Favors
Gobert/Biedrens

with NO bench. NONE.

Limit mins to 32 mins a game. Done. Not a single win the rest of the year.
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I say start and give major minutes to burks as the number one option for 10 - 15 games first to see just what he can do before giving him away
 
fishonjazz said:
I say start and give major minutes to burks as the number one option for 10 - 15 games first to see just what he can do before giving him away
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I'm actually starting to give way to this idea. I'm still not sold on Burks as a main piece of the future, but what harm comes from letting Burks run for a week or two? A better return on a trade? lol.
 
green said:
I'm actually starting to give way to this idea. I'm still not sold on Burks as a main piece of the future, but what harm comes from letting Burks run for a week or two? A better return on a trade? lol.
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As big of a fan of burks as I am, I'm still not sold on him either but like you said..... what's the harm in giving it a try.
If he fails, so what then at least we know for sure that he isn't the man and you trade him or reduce his role back to what it was
 
fishonjazz said:
As big of a fan of burks as I am, I'm still not sold on him either but like you said..... what's the harm in giving it a try.
If he fails, so what then at least we know for sure that he isn't the man and you trade him or reduce his role back to what it was
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agreed.
 
green said:
I don't trade Burke. Not at all. He has "it". He is a leader. We haven't had a leader since Stock/Malone. He makes everyone better. We had only won 1 game before we came on. If we want to guarantee the tank, there are other ways to get there.

1 - Trade the vets. Marvin, Jefferson. Not sure what you can get for them.
2 - Give away Burks. Someone will take him for a future first.
3 - Trade away Kanter.

You do those things, I don't care if you have Michael Jordan. You aren't winning.

Your starting lineup is:

Burke
Hayward
Evans
Favors
Gobert/Biedrens

with NO bench. NONE.

Limit mins to 32 mins a game. Done. Not a single win the rest of the year.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure that smart won't be better. With so few teams having a real need at pg and with Exum being in the draft I think there is an opportunity to move up and get him. I would rather start the year with a full lineup and a decent bench than a core 4 and nothing else.

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Smart Neto
Hayward Burks
Parker FA?
Favors Evans
Kanter Gobert [/td]
[td]>[/td]
[td]Burke Lucas
Hayward ?
Parker ?
Favors Evans
Gobert ?
[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
 
Last edited:
heyhey said:
I'm not so sure that smart won't be better. With so few teams having a real need at pg and with Exum being in the draft I think there is an opportunity to move up and get him. I would rather start the year with a full lineup and a decent bench than a core 4 and nothing else.

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Smart Neto
Hayward Burks
Parker FA?
Favors Evans
Kanter Gobert [/td]
[td]>[/td]
[td]Burke Lucas
Hayward ?
Parker ?
Favors Evans
Gobert ?
[/td]
[/tr]s
[/table]
Click to expand...

I think Burke is and will always be better than Smart. Smart isn't a good shooter and he's playing with his shooting hand at 100 and he turns the ball over too much.
 
I'd take this team:

Burke/vet PG/Neto
Hayward/Young
Parker/Vet SF
Favors/vet PF
Vet C/Gobert

You know Burke is a winner and an NBA PG that makes his team better. Having Burke and Favors allows you to still sign two max guys. That team, with a new coach is a playoff team next year, maybe a home court advantage team.

Smart could be Burke or he could be Tyreke Evans.
 
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Atlanta Hawks
Boston Celtics
Charlotte Bobcats
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Dallas Mavericks
Denver Nuggets
Detroit Pistons
Golden State Warriors
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
LA Clippers
LA Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies
Miami Heat
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Jersey Nets
New Orleans Hornets
New York Knicks
Oklahoma City Thunder
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia Sixers
Phoenix Suns
Portland Trail Blazers
Sacramento Kings
San Antonio Spurs
Toronto Raptors
Utah Jazz
Washington Wizards [/td]
[td]J. Teague
J. Crawford
S. Livingston
K. Walker
K. Hinrich
K. Irving
J. Calderon
T. Lawson
B. Jennings
S. Curry
P. Beverley
G. Hill
C. Paul
S. Blake
M. Conley
M. Chalmers
B. Knight
R. Rubio
J. Holiday
P. Prigioni
R. Westbrook
J. Nelson
M. Carter-Williams
E. Bledsoe
D. Lillard
I. Thomas
T. Parker
K. Lowry
T. Burke
J. Wall[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Now take a look at the quality guys on the bench/injured Rose, Rondo etc
https://espn.go.com/nba/depth/_/type/full

Add Exum and Smart to this list next year(not to mention guys like Schroeder.

PGs are the most replaceable position. There are simply so many decent pgs that I wouldn't lose sleep over losing Burke. Right now the lakers need a pg(only because they stood by Nash) and I bet they would be willing to pay nicely for Burke.
 
heyhey said:
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Atlanta Hawks
Boston Celtics
Charlotte Bobcats
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Dallas Mavericks
Denver Nuggets
Detroit Pistons
Golden State Warriors
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
LA Clippers
LA Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies
Miami Heat
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Jersey Nets
New Orleans Hornets
New York Knicks
Oklahoma City Thunder
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia Sixers
Phoenix Suns
Portland Trail Blazers
Sacramento Kings
San Antonio Spurs
Toronto Raptors
Utah Jazz
Washington Wizards [/td]
[td]J. Teague
J. Crawford
S. Livingston
K. Walker
K. Hinrich
K. Irving
J. Calderon
T. Lawson
B. Jennings
S. Curry
P. Beverley
G. Hill
C. Paul
S. Blake
M. Conley
M. Chalmers
B. Knight
R. Rubio
J. Holiday
P. Prigioni
R. Westbrook
J. Nelson
M. Carter-Williams
E. Bledsoe
D. Lillard
I. Thomas
T. Parker
K. Lowry
T. Burke
J. Wall[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Now take a look at the quality guys on the bench/injured Rose, Rondo etc
https://espn.go.com/nba/depth/_/type/full

Add Exum and Smart to this list next year(not to mention guys like Schroeder.

PGs are the most replaceable position. There are simply so many decent pgs that I wouldn't lose sleep over losing Burke. Right now the lakers need a pg(only because they stood by Nash) and I bet they would be willing to pay nicely for Burke.
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This is a great point. BUT, we were 1-14 without Burke. We have been 5-7 with him. That is special. Toss in the fact that he might not ever be a max player? Wow. I don't trade that for anything...ok, I trade it for LeBron, Durrant and maybe one or two other players. Burke is a special player that could be relatively cheap and he makes everyone around him better and he doesn't turn the ball over, and his passing has shocked me...11 games in. That's incredible. Not many players do that. So, Burke is untouchable for me. I trade away Kanter, Burks, Williams, Jefferson before I touch Burke to assure losing games.

Smart is not a good enough shooter, too many TO's and not enough assists. So, no, I don't want Smart over Burke.
 
The only PG's I would take over Burke are:

Irving, Paul, Westbrook, Lillard. That's it. Four. Toss in the fact that those four players will be or are max players, and I don't know if I want to pay my PG max money. If I can have Burke for 10 per, Hayward at 12 per, Favors at 12 per, Parker at max, I'd take that over one of those four, and losing Favors or Hayward.

The real kicker in all of this is that the Jazz HAVE to get a superstar this draft.
 
green said:
This is a great point. BUT, we were 1-14 without Burke. We have been 5-7 with him. That is special. Toss in the fact that he might not ever be a max player? Wow. I don't trade that for anything...ok, I trade it for LeBron, Durrant and maybe one or two other players. Burke is a special player that could be relatively cheap and he makes everyone around him better and he doesn't turn the ball over, and his passing has shocked me...11 games in. That's incredible. Not many players do that. So, Burke is untouchable for me. I trade away Kanter, Burks, Williams, Jefferson before I touch Burke to assure losing games.

Smart is not a good enough shooter, too many TO's and not enough assists. So, no, I don't want Smart over Burke.
Click to expand...

We were 1-14 with Lucas and Tinsley during the hardest part of our schedule. Comparing Burkes record to Lucas does not impress me. Don't get me wrong you can see by the eyeball test that he is good but not above average.
 
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