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GOP Presidential candidates MIA in debt ceiling talks

I think they should be a ceiling on individual earnings. You know, depending on your status as a worker (hourly, managerial, professional, top executive) you should have an income ceiling. Investors and speculators alike. That way no one can make more than, say $250k per year (top execs, high-level professionals like doctors with specialties, congress, president, etc.). The remainder of the "income" should be dispersed to the rest of the population according to their need. So if you are a single mother (or father) with 5 kids you get the most, and if you are married and a 2-income family with no kids or single with no kids, you get nothing. This would instantly eliminate the wealth disparity. Everyone would be roughly at $75-$100k yearly (either due to earnings or due to welfare) and then we can have a true flat tax without any tax breaks, since the money is already being taken from the rich and being given to the poor. Simple.

Don't try to use slippery slope methods. No one is talking about redistribution of wealth. The rich are making money preying on us. They aren't hiring an you know this quite acting like they need charity. If we tax them they are only going to move back to Clinton preBush tax cut amount. No one is going to take away their million dollar drug binges. But, they are out of control!
 
True story that some may find shocking given my board reputation as some kind of super-liberal:

I am so dissatisfied with Obama that I would consider voting for the right GOP candidate in the 2012 election at this point. It wouldn't be Palin/Bachmann/Newt/Paul or anyone of that ilk. But I might be persuadable in the instance the GOP candidate was Romney or Huntsman.
 
True story that some may find shocking given my board reputation as some kind of super-liberal:

I am so dissatisfied with Obama that I would consider voting for the right GOP candidate in the 2012 election at this point. It wouldn't be Palin/Bachmann/Newt/Paul or anyone of that ilk. But I might be persuadable in the instance the GOP candidate was Romney or Huntsman.

Romney is essentially the same as Barack.

Thriller

The tea party's views are not that radical at all. They are gaining movement because their ideas make sense and are fundemental.

Your assessment of them making the states into 50 different countries is a pretty radical view of their goals.
 
Romney is essentially the same as Barack.

If at the end of the day I believe that is true I would absolutely vote for Romney. The key difference being that the GOP would actually work with him and the country would become governable again.
 
True story that some may find shocking given my board reputation as some kind of super-liberal:

I am so dissatisfied with Obama that I would consider voting for the right GOP candidate in the 2012 election at this point. It wouldn't be Palin/Bachmann/Newt/Paul or anyone of that ilk. But I might be persuadable in the instance the GOP candidate was Romney or Huntsman.

What truly has gotten you up in arms? Seriously after the $#%t we have put ourselves in what did you want a magic genie to come and wish us out?

At least Obama is acting like a grown up he is trying to compromise. Sometimes a bit too much but that is what you get when the general public is ignorant and elects teaparty morons and the democrats in office seem to have left their balls in the hands of the republicans.
 
Romney is essentially the same as Barack.

Thriller

The tea party's views are not that radical at all. They are gaining movement because their ideas make sense and are fundemental.

Your assessment of them making the states into 50 different countries is a pretty radical view of their goals.

The tea party are radical. Don't fool yourself into believing other wise. You can't take the name of Tea Party after the Boston Tea Party that were out to show the British no taxation without representation. Especially when taxes are at record lows. YOu can't cut all of our big government programs to zero unless you are going to force granny and the poor out in the streets.
 
Don't try to use slippery slope methods. No one is talking about redistribution of wealth. The rich are making money preying on us. They aren't hiring an you know this quite acting like they need charity. If we tax them they are only going to move back to Clinton preBush tax cut amount. No one is going to take away their million dollar drug binges. But, they are out of control!

The victim argument doesn't hold any weight with me. That is what my post was a response to. How absolutely ludicrous people sound when they go that route. Who are this nebulous "rich"? Do they have a castle in transylvania they go to in order to plot their next nefarious scheme to bilk single mothers out of their foodstamps? You do realize the "rich" who make policy are the politicians, who, pretty much to a man, are all filthy stinking rich, right?
 
The victim argument doesn't hold any weight with me. That is what my post was a response to. How absolutely ludicrous people sound when they go that route. Who are this nebulous "rich"? Do they have a castle in transylvania they go to in order to plot their next nefarious scheme to bilk single mothers out of their foodstamps? You do realize the "rich" who make policy are the politicians, who, pretty much to a man, are all filthy stinking rich, right?


You are the victim unless you are mega rich. Seriously, the Wall Street scum that invent fraudulent derivatives and Credit Default Swaps. That put their CEOs into offices inside of our government to water down regulations and push through lobbyist to get their companies advantages over consumers. Scummy loan offices that gave mortgages to people who couldn't afford them. Than those hedge fund managers who bundled those junk loans up and traded them. Yet, you sit and allow the Republicans to give you the sob story that by taxing the rich we are redistributing their wealth. While we can't even pay our bills. Don't give me the lie that Obama put us in this position. Did he invent SS, Medicaid, or how about Medicare? Did Obama manipulate and lie about intelligence to get us in IRaq? (watch the movie FAir Game if you don't know about this). Is Obama a CEO of a company can he hire anyone? How are the rich doing? Now lets compare that to the nation. If you are rich go sit on your money and enjoy life. I'm pretty sure that you are old so thanks for bankrupting my generation. And I hope they cut your social security check off first.
 
What truly has gotten you up in arms? Seriously after the $#%t we have put ourselves in what did you want a magic genie to come and wish us out?

He's generally been a bad champion of progressive causes. This is hardly the first instance. The trend started establishing itself when he bungled negotiation over the extension of the Bush tax cuts and it's only gone downhill from there. He's failed to run or control the government's agenda and it's obvious that in practice he has governed as a moderate conservative.

It is not totally crazy to say that in a situation where the general election was between two moderate conservatives I might well choose the one with an R next to his name simply because Congress would actually work with him.
 
He's generally been a bad champion of progressive causes. This is hardly the first instance. The trend started establishing itself when he bungled negotiation over the extension of the Bush tax cuts and it's only gone downhill from there. He's failed to run or control the government's agenda and it's obvious that in practice he has governed as a moderate conservative.

It is not totally crazy to say that in a situation where the general election was between two moderate conservatives I might well choose the one with an R next to his name simply because Congress would actually work with him.


In a vacuum you would be right. But, he has tremendous pressure on him. Not only the pressure to get things done. But, the general public has elected a hateful, antichange assemble of representative that he has to battle. I don't like that he gave into extending the Bush tax cuts and we would not be as bad off financially if he didn't give in. But, remember the Republicans were holding cutting off the unemployment benefits for the millions of innocent that have had companies laying them off for financial gain. So, unlike the tea party he has moved more moderate realizing that inorder to get legislation you have to give on both sides. Just wait if a Republican takes the Presidential office thing are going to get worse.
 
True story that some may find shocking given my board reputation as some kind of super-liberal:

I am so dissatisfied with Obama that I would consider voting for the right GOP candidate in the 2012 election at this point. It wouldn't be Palin/Bachmann/Newt/Paul or anyone of that ilk. But I might be persuadable in the instance the GOP candidate was Romney or Huntsman.

What a nepotist sell out. I don't care if you're 15 times removed or whatever.
 
You are the victim unless you are mega rich. Seriously, the Wall Street scum that invent fraudulent derivatives and Credit Default Swaps. That put their CEOs into offices inside of our government to water down regulations and push through lobbyist to get their companies advantages over consumers. Scummy loan offices that gave mortgages to people who couldn't afford them. Than those hedge fund managers who bundled those junk loans up and traded them. Yet, you sit and allow the Republicans to give you the sob story that by taxing the rich we are redistributing their wealth. While we can't even pay our bills. Don't give me the lie that Obama put us in this position. Did he invent SS, Medicaid, or how about Medicare? Did Obama manipulate and lie about intelligence to get us in IRaq? (watch the movie FAir Game if you don't know about this). Is Obama a CEO of a company can he hire anyone? How are the rich doing? Now lets compare that to the nation. If you are rich go sit on your money and enjoy life. I'm pretty sure that you are old so thanks for bankrupting my generation. And I hope they cut your social security check off first.

Rants like this, especially when you know nothing about your target, completely undermines you credibility. I lost my job due to the recession 3 years ago, and lost a mid-6-figure income in the process. I have now taken a job that amounts to a 35% paycut or so, after close to 2 years uemployed during which we lost our house to a short sale and had one vehicle repossessed and sold another at a loss just so we didn't have the payment any more. We have been living paycheck to paycheck for 3 years now and our savings and retirement are gone. But I refuse to be the victim. It is an attitude as much as anything else.

The "rich" you mentioned are a very small part of the complete compelement of people in this country that could be called "rich", yet you group them all together. Of course we can always say that I sure wish those rich people weren't rich or that they were forced to share their wealth. Of course, stifle it enough and then we wouldn't have Walmart (single largest employer in the country), or any of the other mega-companies that provide jobs. Jobs are not made out of thin air, no matter what political pundit you choose to listen to might say. They come from the work of others, building companies that last and are big enough to offer employment. It drives our standard of living. I agree 100% with your assessment of the Wall Street issues. That bailout was a farce of epic proportions. And for those few individuals they should have reaped what they sowed. But that does not mean that everyone who is a millionaire has some hidden agenda to rape pillage and plunder all us good old "regular" folks, who of course have no faults, always tell the truth, and have never lied or cheated on anything in our lives, not like those no-good, dirty rotten yellow-bellied varmint "rich folk".

Go check out how well Russia is doing after they finally dropped communism or go look at the 3rd world environment most chinese live in, in the strongest economy in the world...and remember, they do not really have the "super rich" like we do, their political environment would not tolerate it. Russia does now, but their economy is highly stifled, largely because it wasn't built on any lasting foundation. No this does not mean that an economy must have super-rich individuals to survive, but it does mean that an economy that will drive a high standard of living has enough freedom that those with enough ingenuity who are willing to put in the work can get rewarded at as high a level as they can achieve.

Without eliminating high earners, you will really never close the gap between "rich" and "poor", not without a wholesale change to the socio/political/economic structure America operates under. So my hyperbolic retort in my previous post is accurate, in a way.

Think about this. Do what it takes to drive the super-rich to not be super-rich any more, or to take much larger chunks of their income for "closing the gap" and how long is it until they move out of the country or otherwise work their incomes so they stop paying taxes altogether. You do realize the "super-rich" pay the vast lion's share of the tax dollars collected, right? Could we really afford to take the 65% of the total tax dollars they pay (depending on the income level at which you choose to draw the line) and distribute that load among the middle-class and poor, who right now pay about 35% of the total taxes collected?

Remember, fair and equitable is in the eye of the beholder. If you work harder than someone else and make the right connections and the right moves and build up some wealth, how is it equitable to cut that down to give it to the guy who decides welfare is enough for him and refuses to go find a job (yeah that is anecdotal, but I met more than a few of them while I was unemployed, and a decade and a half ago this was an epidemic-level problem in England, so don't think it means that doesn't happen).

This is a far bigger issue than simply "ugh...rich man bad...poor man good...ugh...give money to poor man, make rich man not so rich...everyone happy".

But I don't want to draw you into any discussion that may make you rethink your pat party-line rhetoric. Who wants intelligent discourse when we can just scream slogans that we don't really understand louder than the other guy?



By the way, I never mentioned Obama. You created that straw man out of your imagination somehow. This just shows how badly you want to rail against "the bad guys" and will equate anyone who disagrees with you to those bad guys. Pretty much party-line SOP.

Now let's see if you notice that I never mentioned a politcal party either.
 
In a vacuum you would be right. But, he has tremendous pressure on him. Not only the pressure to get things done. But, the general public has elected a hateful, antichange assemble of representative that he has to battle. I don't like that he gave into extending the Bush tax cuts and we would not be as bad off financially if he didn't give in. But, remember the Republicans were holding cutting off the unemployment benefits for the millions of innocent that have had companies laying them off for financial gain. So, unlike the tea party he has moved more moderate realizing that inorder to get legislation you have to give on both sides. Just wait if a Republican takes the Presidential office thing are going to get worse.

So, your position is that companies should always keep people employed even when the economic indicators and their balance sheet shows they cannot support the wages? So no matter what any time a company lays someone off it is because that is automatically a positive to the bottom-line so that is the only reason for lay-offs? Really? So if laying employees off makes them more money, if they lay off everyone they will make infinity dollars!

Most companies lay off employees grudgingly and only as a survival method. When I got laid off I was intimately connected to the company's balance sheet. I saw the writing on the wall before they made any announcements. I could see the cash position dwindling, the sales drop-off, the revenue drops, and the profit whittled away (margins dropped by more than 75%). If a company can't turn a profit, the next thing is they can't pay their bills, then they go out of business. That is just the way it works. So smart companies will lay off a portion of the workforce to keep the rest of them employed. Yeah it sucks, no it isn't a conspiracy.

Not only that but, without employees, what can the company produce? If they cannot produce, what do they sell? If they have nothing to sell...well then you have no company. In my case they laid off many mid-level execs so they could keep the hourly workforce intact to continue producing. Hence the company survives and minimal jobs are lost rather than all of them being lost.
 
Rants like this, especially when you know nothing about your target, completely undermines you credibility. I lost my job due to the recession 3 years ago, and lost a mid-6-figure income in the process. I have now taken a job that amounts to a 35% paycut or so, after close to 2 years uemployed during which we lost our house to a short sale and had one vehicle repossessed and sold another at a loss just so we didn't have the payment any more. We have been living paycheck to paycheck for 3 years now and our savings and retirement are gone. But I refuse to be the victim. It is an attitude as much as anything else.

If you were making a mid 6 figure income and couldn't survive a 2 year unemployment stint you were spending money like a drunken buffoon.

So many people in this country don't make a few hundred thousand dollars in an 5-6 year period and live comfortably with cars and a house payment, and kids in college.

This is the kind of removal from what the actual middle class lives like that gives me no sympathy for people crying about raising taxes on those who make $250,000+ yearly.
 
If you were making a mid 6 figure income and couldn't survive a 2 year unemployment stint you were spending money like a drunken buffoon.

So many people in this country don't make a few hundred thousand dollars in an 5-6 year period and live comfortably with cars and a house payment, and kids in college.

This is the kind of removal from what the actual middle class lives like that gives me no sympathy for people crying about raising taxes on those who make $250,000+ yearly.

Mid-100's, between 100 and 200k per year. Guess I worded that wrong, but thanks for the assumption! Shows your true disconnect and proclivities and refusal to give the benefit of the doubt. Your indoctrination is complete. You are close to being a Sith Lord.
 
don't try to reverse the victim card most of these layoff just gave companies more profit. Our country is sputtering what would you like to see?

So your argument is that every company makes money all the time and there is never in any way shape or form a legitimate need to lay people off to save money. I guess bankruptcy is a huge deception too, right? So if layoffs lead to such windfalls in profit, why did they all wait for a recession? Why not just lay people off all the time to boost profits?

What planet do you live on again?
 
So your argument is that every company makes money all the time and there is never in any way shape or form a legitimate need to lay people off to save money. I guess bankruptcy is a huge deception too, right? So if layoffs lead to such windfalls in profit, why did they all wait for a recession? Why not just lay people off all the time to boost profits?

What planet do you live on again?

Now it all makes sense to me! When I lost my job in the construction industry (as did a lot of my friends and co-workers) it wasn't because people weren't building houses, it was because the owners of the construction companies all realized how much money they were wasting on paying their employees. Once they got rid of us, the greedy ******** were able to pocket 100% of the revenue.
 
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