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Gordon Hayward can not Score in the NBA

Archie Moses said:
a) So does DWade... Point is, he getting points without dominating the ball.
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Given that Dwayne Wade is #1 in the league in usage rate he's probably not the comparison you want to draw when trying to make that point.

In any event, the issue is simply as follows: the stat means nothing because it can twisted in the same form to apply to a number of other players that we already know aren't NBA quality.

Put another way: Gordan Hayward is barely cracking double digits against non-NBA level talent.
 
The point:

Gordon Hayward has had a positive effect on almost every single play where he has touched the ball. It isn't his fault Gaines feels like he needs to play like Morris Almond. Hayward has been productive and incredibly efficient in the time he has been given so far.

Anyone who hasn't seen this hasn't been watching the games. Stop just looking at the box score.
 
twentytwo said:
The point:

Gordon Hayward has had a positive effect on almost every single play where he has touched the ball. It isn't his fault Gaines feels like he needs to play like Morris Almond. Hayward has been productive and incredibly efficient in the time he has been given so far.

Anyone who hasn't seen this hasn't been watching the games. Stop just looking at the box score.
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Holler.
 
Beantown said:
I think the best part about Hayward so far is that he is showing how bball smart he is. He is letting the game come to him and not trying to do to much. He is a great passer and flows very well within the offense. Also he runs extremely well without the ball. I have to admit that I get turned on thinking about him playing next to Dwill and within the Sloan offense.
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I have been impressed with Hayward so far. He looked a lot more comfortable in today's game. It is kinda hard to tell a lot about what any of the guards and wings can do because the freakin point guards we have out there have blinders on and jack up everything. It will be nice to see what he can do when he has Deron setting him up.
 
I definitely saw some of hayword's strengths today: great knock down shooter, good rebounder for his size, high basketball IQ, ability to get to the free throw line. yes it's just summer league ball but it's a good start.
 
I've been impressed with his passing. Pretty quick first-step and consistently gets into the lane, although he usually looks to dish or kick out rather than score.
 
Archie Moses said:
What facts have myself or others left out? The fact that Hayward looks pretty good in the summer league and scoring 22 points on 7 shots? I'm confused.
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Hayward has had 22 points on 7 shots? Really? I haven't seen that posted ANYWHERE.

The fact of the matter is, is that Hayward is playing hoping to not to make a mistake. If you watched the game, you could see that. I believe Ty Corbin made a comment along those lines. There were points where he passed up wide open jumpers. He just doesn't feel comfortable in a role that requires him taking a lot of shots at this point. That's why his shot totals are so low through two games (also, 4 of his points in today's game came off of FT's from intentional fouls). To his credit, he's made the most of his shots and been very efficient and unselfish. He's also made some clutch buckets. But I still would like to see him be a little more aggressive in looking for his shot, especially on a summer league team. He needs to find that balance of patience and aggressiveness.

Honestly, his offensive game isn't what I was worried about to being with. I figured his shooting would probably come around because he's shown the ability before. Defense is my main concern on the NBA level...
 
First let me get the caveats out of the way so I'm not accused of doing something I'm actually not doing: I readily concede that drawing conclusions from summer league plan is potentially invalid. And, yes, I also concede that summer league play IS NOT equivalent to regular NBA season games.

With that out of the way (one would think the above is implied and not necessary to repeat ad nausea), I am interested, and encouraged, by the fact that Hayward has produced his points in much fewer minutes and much fewer shot attempts than other 'stalwart' performers during summer league play so far.

I'm on the fence about Hayward (I would have taken Henry), but this, while not conclusive, is nice to see. Not evidence to proclaim future NBA stardom, but also not evidence to validate the sky is falling wails and moans of the Hayward haters on this board.

By the by, a related topic. The most recent ESPN Magazine rated pro franchises on quality from the fan's perspective, using a variety of metrics, and it rated the Jazz among the top tier of all basketball, football, hockey, and baseball franchises in the US and number 3 or 4 (if memory serves me) among all basketball franchises. Not an encouraging finding for those who want to believe that the Jazz FO is one of the very, absolute worst in the NBA.
 
The little I've seen of him out there shows me he has potential to make it in this league. He is extremely smart which tends to cover for a lot of his athletic faults, but honestly, his athleticism isn't that bad.
 
I know it's already been said, but I don't buy the: "it's only summer league" argument that goes against Hayward. If he was sucking it up, those same people would be absolutely MURDERING him on this board.

I also need to point out that like Write4U, I pointed out on draft night after watching about an hour of Hayward videos that he looks like 6-9 Horny and while he'll never be the 3 point shooter Horny was, he'll be much more effective at moving without the ball and getting to the basket on those back-cuts due to his size.

With all that being said, David Locke made a pretty good assessment of Hayward on his radio show today. He pointed out that Gordan Hayward may be the anti-thesis of Rudy Gay. Gay is bigger, stronger and faster than Hayward. More atheletic and obviously able to score more points, but at the end of the day, is he winning games for the Memphis Grizzlies? No.

While Locke did concede that it is early (as he should), he thinks that Hayward can be the exact opposite type of player. He's not going to wow you with his scoring or circus like shots, but at the end of the game, he may be the type of player who helps your team come up with a win because of all that he is willing to do (and all of the stupid stuff he's able to avoid thanks to a very high basketball IQ).

Aside from Horny, I keep seeing Harpring as a comparison with Hayward. I don't really like that comparison. While I don't think Hayward will ever be tougher than Harpring, his Bball IQ is higher than Harps, which I think is going to lead to a much higher ceiling for Hayward.

I think this kid's going to be alright. I think he's going to play for the Jazz for a long, long time and there's going to be plenty of nights where he scores in the range of a fairly modest 10-to-15 points but will be an MVP for a suprising amount of those games.
 
The Thriller said:
You're right, he can not score in the NBA. In fact, he hasn't quite yet.

Summer League. Summer.

I remember Mo Almond scoring at will in the D-League. How did that translate in the NBA?
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Most summer league teams would kick the **** out of the best D-league teams.
 
My opinion totally matters, but I'm cool with him starting pre-season games for us with Wes Matthews. Do wonders for his confidence, and not cost us anything in the season.

It's much closer to mattering in the pre-season than in the Summer League. If the Jazz were smart they'd send him down to where Millsap and Brewer went to work on training right out of the gates(after summer league).
 
Sirkickyass said:
Given that Dwayne Wade is #1 in the league in usage rate he's probably not the comparison you want to draw when trying to make that point.

In any event, the issue is simply as follows: the stat means nothing because it can twisted in the same form to apply to a number of other players that we already know aren't NBA quality.

Put another way: Gordan Hayward is barely cracking double digits against non-NBA level talent.
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14 points in 19 minutes...
 
Sirkickyass said:
Given that Dwayne Wade is #1 in the league in usage rate he's probably not the comparison you want to draw when trying to make that point.

In any event, the issue is simply as follows: the stat means nothing because it can twisted in the same form to apply to a number of other players that we already know aren't NBA quality.

Put another way: Gordan Hayward is barely cracking double digits against non-NBA level talent.
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Kicky, you obviously don't know sarcasm nor do you want to give props to Hayward for a pretty interesting and impressive stat. Instead, you've come in this thread ego happy on a mission to make everyone aware that a) this is summer league b) Those stats are misleading and c) Hayward is playing against non-NBA level talent (which isn't true btw)

I'm discussing positives about a player that myself was skeptical about, but I'm feeling more confident in what he's done. Yes, I know it's summer league. I also know that credit given where credit is due. The kid has played alright.

EDIT: BTW, the Dwayne Wade remark I made was obviously sarcasm while I was making a point.
 
Seriously, how is anyone not pumped about what Hayward has done the first two games?

I hated the pick on draft night, but I'm not going to try and justify my opinion by trying to find reasons that he sucks.

I'm loving what I've seen so far. In fact I have a semi honz-on for Hayward at the moment.
 
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honz said:
14 points in 19 minutes...
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Sum of those were on the free throws tho and they r called free for a reason lol. And I bet Adam Morrinson did just as good so lets see how he does when hes in the real nba and everybodys dunking on him lol
 
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