Where was Hayward in the crucial game to make the playoffs against the Clippers third team at the end of 2015-2016 reagular season?
Gordon on moving to Celtics
- Thread starter royzzz
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Where was Hayward in the crucial game to make the playoffs against the Clippers third team at the end of 2015-2016 reagular season?
Tak
Well-Known Member
Boozer success in Chicago? Lol. I dare you to ask any Bulls fan about the "success" of Boozer in Chicago.
And let me remind you that AK's Eurobasket title AND MVP was playing against Pau Gasol, you know, that same weaker competition that Boozer struggled every year.
But you're right, maybe AK only had minor success because of Utah's system, the fact that his best years, his Euro title and MVP were playing PF instead of SF is evidence of how the system screwed him and he was unable to adapt to the situation.
Lol Euro title is your best argument that AK is better? Then you bring up that he played against 1 NBA player past his prime. Terrible argument.
Again boozer was bad in Chicago but he did more for that team in the playoffs than AK ever did in the NBA ever.
Why wasn't ak better when he played for Minny? Or Brooklyn? Those systems were bad *** well?
Laid an egg along with the entire team. Not sure what point you are making. One game doesn't really mean much.
Hayward was our best player in the playoffs this year. There are plenty of things I dislike about him and I'm not sad he is gone but that is still a fact.
He was great in the playoffs this year and had a really good all star level season this year and too one of the most injured teams to the second round of the playoffs.
AK got a team to the lottery at his peak at 22 then went downhill. He never had a real impact in the NBA in the playoffs.
People have some rose colored glasses for ak I guess.
I don't really care what happens with Hayward next year.
But he was the best player in the playoffs for the Jazz. He did more to help them win than JJ. JJ hit some big shots but we would have lost and it would not have been close without Hayward.
I can't believe anyone thinks JJ was our best player in the playoffs. It's silly to try and argue that.
hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Speaking of letting things go, how long have you been trolling this site now?
Tak
Well-Known Member
2007 Pau Gasol past his prime? Even before he went to win 2 rings with LA? Now it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
I guess 2007 pau was still in his prime. But still its 1 NBA player, that is a much much lower level of competition than the NBA. And you compared it to the team that beat the Jazz the Lakers who won the NBA championship. That is a silly silly argument.
Sorry if you think AK was better than Boozer than you are a delusional AK fan boy.
I hated Boozer and liked AK when he was with the Jazz but it isnt close.
AK did nothing for his career except lead a crappy team to the top of the lottery. That is his peak and best accomplishment in the NBA. I dont really care about what he did in some lower league. Might as well talk about what he did in college or high school. Boozer won an NCAA championship and 2 state high school championships... Cool now back to how AK never did anything in the NBA when it mattered.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I cant believe we are still talking about this guy. While we are add it, lets add a bashing thread for CJ Miles, Ostertag and Dominique Wilkins. Jeez, move on people
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Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
Arguing Boozer vs. AK is kind of silly. Both those guys had intangibles (or the lack thereof) hold them back and neither one is the guy you want emotionally leading a contending team. By the end of each of their respective tenures here, losing them was addition by subtraction.
Regarding AK winning us a playoff series, though he had a bad year and exposed himself as emotionally shallow competitively speaking that post-season, he did hit that three at the end of game 6 in Houston that, without it, there likely would have never been a game 7.
Regarding AK vs. Gordon, I'd go Gordon, though I'm disappointed that both of them, for very different reasons, just couldn't be the leaders here that we wanted them to be.
Here's my final thoughts on Hayward:
I was pissed when we drafted him. I really wanted George. I was bummed all summer. The first time I saw him in live action was in preseason and, though he didn't do much in the box score, I felt very reassured by how he moved away from the ball as well as being able to come off a screen and hit a mid range J. I realized that his athleticism was vastly underrated and he could play the 2, and being 6'8" was nice, so I wasn't bummed with the pick, though that first year and in some subsequent years the George sting was real. When he threw that elbow into Kobe, that was awesome.
We always talked that he was the Robin to someone's Batman. That was true up until this year, he really came out. He made huge strides but there were a couple points in the season that he didn't step up like I'd hoped. I think at some point during his extension negotiations you could tell the dynamic with the team shifted a bit as Rudy started stepping up big and being the person to come through, even offensively, while Gordon stood back. I think this was a very nonverbal communication that Gobert was pushing him aside and making this his team because he had committed long-term and Gordon had yet to, and Gordon kind of stepped aside for that time feeling somewhat awkward in how to respond to that. I think this was over a stretch of 2-3 weeks or so.
Fast forward to game 1 in LA and Rudy goes down. Gordon's body language looked pretty defeated as if this would just be a formality. He didn't play well that game but grabbed some boards. We won the game and I think that instilled some hope in him. The rest of the series, he was dynamite. I think he was starting to come in as a superstar toward the end by everything else he was doing on the floor, some of the rebounds he was running in and fighting down and his scuffle with Chris Paul. That series solidified him not as Robin, but as Nightwing. I thought next year he could make the jump, being locked in long-term and truly establishing himself as a legit franchise player -- putting up 24+ ppg. He was one stretch 4 away from having the perfect supporting cast and he would have been immortalized into Jazz history, he and Rudy surpassing everyone not named Karl and John, but possibly being able to eclipse the hurdle of a title in SL would have brought them to legendary status -- that's a rare opportunity, and a larger accomplishment in my opinion, but obviously not as alluring to many people.
But it apparently wasn't what he wanted. He could very well be quite good in Boston and put up good numbers, but I just don't think his impact will be the same or as meaningful to team success as it could have been here. We had a unique situation where you have another franchise guy who in no way takes anything from you and allows you to be the complete focal point of an offense while still playing a team game. He would have the stability of knowing Rudy's here and knowing that he himself isn't on the trade block. I don't think he gets that luxury in Boston. It's quite possible he could be traded during this contract, especially if things end up lukewarm. But whatever, he exposed some things about himself that we now know he couldn't be the leader we wanted him to be. He couldn't embrace that role. A couple months ago someone said Ainge would tell him that he, too, started his career in Utah, but he went to Boston to become a champion. I made a meme of Gordon saying "I blaze my own path." That meme turned out to be quite wrong. Someone in this thread or another recently mentioned that he seems to bask more in the glory established by players of yesteryear than in creating his own legend. Ultimately, our situation demands the latter but he's clearly shown the former, so I suppose in a way it makes sense for us each to go our separate ways.
Regarding AK winning us a playoff series, though he had a bad year and exposed himself as emotionally shallow competitively speaking that post-season, he did hit that three at the end of game 6 in Houston that, without it, there likely would have never been a game 7.
Regarding AK vs. Gordon, I'd go Gordon, though I'm disappointed that both of them, for very different reasons, just couldn't be the leaders here that we wanted them to be.
Here's my final thoughts on Hayward:
I was pissed when we drafted him. I really wanted George. I was bummed all summer. The first time I saw him in live action was in preseason and, though he didn't do much in the box score, I felt very reassured by how he moved away from the ball as well as being able to come off a screen and hit a mid range J. I realized that his athleticism was vastly underrated and he could play the 2, and being 6'8" was nice, so I wasn't bummed with the pick, though that first year and in some subsequent years the George sting was real. When he threw that elbow into Kobe, that was awesome.
We always talked that he was the Robin to someone's Batman. That was true up until this year, he really came out. He made huge strides but there were a couple points in the season that he didn't step up like I'd hoped. I think at some point during his extension negotiations you could tell the dynamic with the team shifted a bit as Rudy started stepping up big and being the person to come through, even offensively, while Gordon stood back. I think this was a very nonverbal communication that Gobert was pushing him aside and making this his team because he had committed long-term and Gordon had yet to, and Gordon kind of stepped aside for that time feeling somewhat awkward in how to respond to that. I think this was over a stretch of 2-3 weeks or so.
Fast forward to game 1 in LA and Rudy goes down. Gordon's body language looked pretty defeated as if this would just be a formality. He didn't play well that game but grabbed some boards. We won the game and I think that instilled some hope in him. The rest of the series, he was dynamite. I think he was starting to come in as a superstar toward the end by everything else he was doing on the floor, some of the rebounds he was running in and fighting down and his scuffle with Chris Paul. That series solidified him not as Robin, but as Nightwing. I thought next year he could make the jump, being locked in long-term and truly establishing himself as a legit franchise player -- putting up 24+ ppg. He was one stretch 4 away from having the perfect supporting cast and he would have been immortalized into Jazz history, he and Rudy surpassing everyone not named Karl and John, but possibly being able to eclipse the hurdle of a title in SL would have brought them to legendary status -- that's a rare opportunity, and a larger accomplishment in my opinion, but obviously not as alluring to many people.
But it apparently wasn't what he wanted. He could very well be quite good in Boston and put up good numbers, but I just don't think his impact will be the same or as meaningful to team success as it could have been here. We had a unique situation where you have another franchise guy who in no way takes anything from you and allows you to be the complete focal point of an offense while still playing a team game. He would have the stability of knowing Rudy's here and knowing that he himself isn't on the trade block. I don't think he gets that luxury in Boston. It's quite possible he could be traded during this contract, especially if things end up lukewarm. But whatever, he exposed some things about himself that we now know he couldn't be the leader we wanted him to be. He couldn't embrace that role. A couple months ago someone said Ainge would tell him that he, too, started his career in Utah, but he went to Boston to become a champion. I made a meme of Gordon saying "I blaze my own path." That meme turned out to be quite wrong. Someone in this thread or another recently mentioned that he seems to bask more in the glory established by players of yesteryear than in creating his own legend. Ultimately, our situation demands the latter but he's clearly shown the former, so I suppose in a way it makes sense for us each to go our separate ways.
Tak
Well-Known Member
If you think that Boozer was a better basketball player than AK then you have a heavy concussion. Better scorer? yes. Better basketball player? Not in a million years.
BTW, "lower league"? FIBA Eurobasket it's not a "league" it's a championship, with European national teams.
Really man, why all the AK hate? Did he use his yearly pass on your girl or something? Because it's starting to look personal.
Yep, cool story about some low level competition he did good at. Now back to the NBA in which we are discussing. Name me what AK has done in the NBA in the post season besides getting carried by Boozer?
AK has a lot of cool coulda woulda fans like you but he has nothing to show for it but mediocre to poor playoff games.
Again I liked AK. But I am sure you can keep making up some crap to sound cool since there is no argument for AK being better except some lower level overseas thing that one NBA player was there for.
Tak
Well-Known Member
Man, it's better to stop before start to show ignorance. "...some lower level overseas thing that one NBA player was there for."? Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, Boris Diaw, Marco Belinelli, Goran Dragic, Dirk Nowitzki, Hedo Turkoglu and Memo are some of the names that were competing on that "lower level thing". It's ok if you don't like euro basket, but to diss it in that way doesn't reflect good on you.
You keep going to a couple of playoffs games Booz was good on it to show his supposed superiority basketball wise over AK, but the reality is that he only scored more points and that's all. Everyone knows those Jazz teams were flawed because they couldn't defend the paint against my granny on a wheelchair, and the main culprit of that was Boozer (Memo could at least defend one on one) So yeah, he got us points, some rebounds, but how many did he gave with his lazy defense? AK wasn't a better scorer, but in his worst day he was 5x the guy Booz was on defense, he was a better passer, better slasher and better at the rim. So no, those couple of good games you fondly remember doesn't make Boozer a better basketball player than AK.
I'll qualify this by saying I didn't read the second paragraph, but there certainly is good competition in Europe but everything you said about Europe you could say about college basketball and rattle off the names of big name players who were in the NCAA. Both arguments miss the point. Neither one is the NBA.
He couldn't guard the post. Which is why he ended up on the perimeter even though no one respected his shooting. Dray can also shoot. Dray also cares about winning and losing. Dray also plays with a serious grit regardless of his individual involvement. Dray is also a critical piece (arguably THE critical piece) to the greatest roster ever assembled.
So... uhh... yeahhh... no.
No.
Witty Username
Well-Known Member
oh god, an AK argument
Why should I care what he has to say? The way he and his agent outright lied to the Jazz throughout the process makes me assume anything he says is bound to be bull**** so I'm not even going to waste my time reading it. He's gone and I'm over it. **** him. The future is still bright without him if our FO makes the right decisions going forward. And that's what I'm focused on now.
I seem to remember a certain Illinois fan who was so pissed that the Jazz traded Deron that he whined and whined and whined. And finally vowed to leave the site and never return. His wittle feelings were very very hurt.
Now, who was that petulant child.... ????
To his credit, NCJ was an early Hayward hater. I think he actually called him "trash" and said that Shelvin was a better player.
Being completely wrong, yet again, is to his credit?