What's new
By:

Gordon VS. Vonleh

Who do you pick out of these two?

  • Aaron Gordon

    Votes: 35 60.3%

  • Noah Vonleh

    Votes: 23 39.7%
  • Total voters
    58
Beantown said:
You can't be an All-Star and have no elite skill. Vonleh does nothing elite. Next year Gordon will be one of the most athletic defenders in the league.
Click to expand...

Vonleh is elite in that he can be for the jazz what they need him to be, if we need scoring from the paint he'll provide it. If we need scoring from the perimeter, and create space for Favors and driving lanes for Burks and Hayword and gives the team options on pick'n roll plays.

Right now all Gordon is is an athletic defender. Has no jumper or inside game at the nba level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Gordon's lack of feel and skill on the offensive end scares the crap out of me. I think if you expect him to be a decent offensive player, you're in for a disappointment. And not being able to hit half your free-throws is unreal for anyone who doesn't have ginormous hands. He's showing up in the 8 - 10 range on mocks, and I don't think he's really a candidate at 5.

I think Vonleh has a very high floor, as a rich man's Marvin Williams or Rashard Lewis. He's a 2-way player with elite length and good shooting touch. He can potentially play any frontcourt position, and his versatility suggests he'll benefit from NBA spacing. Plus, he's very young and has a lot of room to improve. You're looking at a potential Chris Bosh-caliber player, which is the right asset to draft at #5.

I think the debate at 5 should really be between Randle, Vonleh and Smart. I'd predict that Gordon goes 7 or 8 in this draft.
 
Catchall said:
Gordon's lack of feel and skill on the offensive end scares the crap out of me. I think if you expect him to be a decent offensive player, you're in for a disappointment. And not being able to hit half your free-throws is unreal for anyone who doesn't have ginormous hands. He's showing up in the 8 - 10 range on mocks, and I don't think he's really a candidate at 5.

I think Vonleh has a very high floor, as a rich man's Marvin Williams or Rashard Lewis. He's a 2-way player with elite length and good shooting touch. He can potentially play any frontcourt position, and his versatility suggests he'll benefit from NBA spacing. Plus, he's very young and has a lot of room to improve. You're looking at a potential Chris Bosh-caliber player, which is the right asset to draft at #5.

I think the debate at 5 should really be between Randle, Vonleh and Smart. I'd predict that Gordon goes 7 or 8 in this draft.
Click to expand...

This. Never been a fan of drafting Gordon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I love how people who have not followed Arizona act like Gordon does not have an offensive game. I watched every game, and am an alumni so obviously biased.

However, the guy just plays basketball. Very well. On BOTH ends of the court. He can't shoot free throws, but he can score points... even in the NBA.
 
phippsj said:
I love how people who have not followed Arizona act like Gordon does not have an offensive game. I watched every game, and am an alumni so obviously biased.

However, the guy just plays basketball. Very well. On BOTH ends of the court. He can't shoot free throws, but he can score points... even in the NBA.
Click to expand...

He's got that rebounding gene as well. There are just certain people that tend to be in the right place to grab rebounds. Gordon is one of them. Also, he has very good vision and can assist the ball really well, especially on the move.
 
where was his offensive game vs Wisconsin in regulation? 1-9... 3points

the fact of the matter is Aaron Gordon is just not good in halfcourt offense. his defense is a bit sensationalized on this board too, in the Wisconsin game he got beat more than a few times;

-Nigel Hayes stole his dribble and backed him a few times in the first half, Nigel used his elbows to pin AG in place and score around him.

-In the second half vs Frank Kaminsky he got bulldozed him from 12 feet out into a layup, a few plays later he left Kaminsky to help and Frank ended up making a wide open 3

-guarding Sam Dekker with 5 minutes to go in the second half, Gordon got lost on a screen and Dekker gets a wideopen layup

- mixed results guarding Traevon Jackson whom he forced into a tough but make-able shot at the end of regulation, Jackson did end up beating him on a play in overtime though.

now he had plenty of great defensive possessions too, and i dont want to make too much about one game, but those plays all happened.

i just dont think Aaron Gordon is the defensive panacea that some are making him out to be. I watched Lebron drop a good portion of his 61 points on MKG this season, who was playing pretty good defense

the main reasons you hear people wanting Gordon over Vonleh are things like, BBIQ, Defense, Passing, Attitude... Kidd-Gilchrist had all of those in spades coming out of UK but that didnt prevent him from being what looks like a bust in just 2 seasons
 
Lottery tweener graveyard:

Name/ freshman PER

Beasley / 38.9
Derrick Williams / 26.4
Joe Alexander / 24.2
Luke Babbitt / 24.0
Marcus Morris / 19.0
Al Farouq Aminu / 20.7
??Aaron Gordon?? / 20.9

Not picking on Gordon but you have to admit he's behind the 8 ball. Some of these guys were even great college 3 point shooters but were exposed going out to NBA 3 point range (a danger for Parker as well).
 
Jazz4ever said:
(a danger for Parker as well).
Click to expand...

its funny you'd point that out. for all the crap Zach LaVine got for his shooting falling off late, he shot 37% from 3 in conference play

Jabari shot 30% (on 2.9 attempts per)

Vonleh shot 60% (1.6 attempts)

Gordon shot 17% (.9 attempts)
 
That 60 percent is insane
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
where was his offensive game vs Wisconsin in regulation? 1-9... 3points

the fact of the matter is Aaron Gordon is just not good in halfcourt offense. his defense is a bit sensationalized on this board too, in the Wisconsin game he got beat more than a few times;

-Nigel Hayes stole his dribble and backed him a few times in the first half, Nigel used his elbows to pin AG in place and score around him.

-In the second half vs Frank Kaminsky he got bulldozed him from 12 feet out into a layup, a few plays later he left Kaminsky to help and Frank ended up making a wide open 3

-guarding Sam Dekker with 5 minutes to go in the second half, Gordon got lost on a screen and Dekker gets a wideopen layup

- mixed results guarding Traevon Jackson whom he forced into a tough but make-able shot at the end of regulation, Jackson did end up beating him on a play in overtime though.

now he had plenty of great defensive possessions too, and i dont want to make too much about one game, but those plays all happened.

i just dont think Aaron Gordon is the defensive panacea that some are making him out to be. I watched Lebron drop a good portion of his 61 points on MKG this season, who was playing pretty good defense

the main reasons you hear people wanting Gordon over Vonleh are things like, BBIQ, Defense, Passing, Attitude... Kidd-Gilchrist had all of those in spades coming out of UK but that didnt prevent him from being what looks like a bust in just 2 seasons
Click to expand...


I can play this game too.

What about the 16 games where Vonleh had 0 assists? Can the Jazz really afford to draft another non-passer?

What about his 0 pt game on 11/22?

What about his passive nature? For a kid with his body, and supposedly so offensively gifted, why did he only score 11 pts per game for his team? Can we really add another sissy?

To rebuttal your whole post, stop nitpicking specific plays. You are acting like 18 yr old players don't make mistakes. Every basketball great has made a mistake. Does it change who they are? A. Gordon's ability to guard is unquestionable.

Now for your MKG comparison:

It's laughable.

MKG shot 24% from 3, A. Gordon shot 35%

MKG had 17.1% TO rate!!!!!!! A. Gordon has a exceptional handles for his size

A. Gordon is a legit 2" taller

Gordon has a 39" vert, MKG has a 35" vert

A. Gordon finished 1st in non guards for lane agility

A. Gordon beat everyone in the shuttle run



Etc. and so forth.
 
Last edited:
Jazz4ever said:
Lottery tweener graveyard:

Name/ freshman PER

Beasley / 38.9
Derrick Williams / 26.4
Joe Alexander / 24.2
Luke Babbitt / 24.0
Marcus Morris / 19.0
Al Farouq Aminu / 20.7
??Aaron Gordon?? / 20.9

Not picking on Gordon but you have to admit he's behind the 8 ball. Some of these guys were even great college 3 point shooters but were exposed going out to NBA 3 point range (a danger for Parker as well).
Click to expand...

This doesn't tell us much to be honest. Some of those listed are slow footed, and not really tweeners, but rather undersized PF's w/ out a game. Others were shooters, while others were athletes, and then there is those like Beasley who could've been great, but just had bad attitudes and thought they knew best.

Aaron Gordon ism't a tweener in the sense he is a slow footed and undersized PF who you try to force in the SF role. He has elite quickness, even for the SF position, and yet he is even bigger for what that position usually demands. His shooting hasn't caught up to the rest of his elite skills, but to suggest he is devoid of an offensive game is inaccurate. He is devoid of a post game, but is a great ball handler, slasher, dunker, finger-roller, driver, and has a good looking jumper that's been falling at a 35% clip from DT. He just needs reps shooting. He has handles, court vision, defensive and rebounding instincts, and a great BBIQ. He is 18 yrs old. He can't be perfect ... Yet.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
where was his offensive game vs Wisconsin in regulation? 1-9... 3points

the fact of the matter is Aaron Gordon is just not good in halfcourt offense. his defense is a bit sensationalized on this board too, in the Wisconsin game he got beat more than a few times;

-Nigel Hayes stole his dribble and backed him a few times in the first half, Nigel used his elbows to pin AG in place and score around him.

-In the second half vs Frank Kaminsky he got bulldozed him from 12 feet out into a layup, a few plays later he left Kaminsky to help and Frank ended up making a wide open 3

-guarding Sam Dekker with 5 minutes to go in the second half, Gordon got lost on a screen and Dekker gets a wideopen layup

- mixed results guarding Traevon Jackson whom he forced into a tough but make-able shot at the end of regulation, Jackson did end up beating him on a play in overtime though.

now he had plenty of great defensive possessions too, and i dont want to make too much about one game, but those plays all happened.

i just dont think Aaron Gordon is the defensive panacea that some are making him out to be. I watched Lebron drop a good portion of his 61 points on MKG this season, who was playing pretty good defense

the main reasons you hear people wanting Gordon over Vonleh are things like, BBIQ, Defense, Passing, Attitude... Kidd-Gilchrist had all of those in spades coming out of UK but that didnt prevent him from being what looks like a bust in just 2 seasons
Click to expand...


Gordon is a 3 who played low for Arizona. Nobody, including our legit 7-footer was able to keep Kaminsky from scoring. He destroyed us, inside and out. No doubt about it.

That was one of Aaron's worst games for Arizona, but I would still rather have him on the court. I'll point out that he also made some pretty clutch plays when it mattered, pulled down 18 rebounds, and that without him we would have been destroyed that game.

Back to my original point, Aaron can play on both ends of the floor and is going to have a nice career at the next level. What I was trying to point out is that folks on here (who have not watched him play, or have watched very little) act like he would be lucky to get a layup and that the only thing he can do is dunk. He actually has a pretty decent mid-range game, that's just not how Arizona used him.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
ibu9KOQxlST77P.gif
Click to expand...

Look at their frames and arms. Gordon had a wide shoulder frame and his arms are jacked. Vonleh's frame is very thin.
 
on 11/22 vs Uconn the refs called one of the tightest games i saw all year, i can remember being furious about a few calls and Noah only played 10 minutes. his assists aren't good, but center was playing a new position in a very bad offense, he was a faceup player in HS as he will be in the NBA. IU lost two top 4 picks in the previous draft and played like it.

Aaron Gordon was playing on one of the best teams in the nation, loaded with 5 star recruits

Noah scored 11.3 points on 7.3 shots
Gordon scored 12.4 points on 10.1 shots

how is he a sissy? is that really part of your expert analysis, a 247lb 18 year old sissy with a ridiculous rebound rate.. how does that happen?

and Gordon shot 35% from 3 but is that really reliable at NBA range? what about 17% from 3 in conference play... that was a fluke???

obviously theirs going to be disconnects in any player comparison how can MKG be a terrible comparison when so many of their stats are damn near identical...

AG - minutes 31.2, 12.4ppg, 49% fg's, 8.0 rebs, 2.0 ast, .9 stl, 1.0 blk
MKG-minutes 31.1, 11.9ppg, 49% fg's, 7.4 rebs, 1.9 ast, 1.0stl, .9blk

MKG doesnt have exceptional handles?? thats bogus, he grabs rebounds and flys coast to coast

"Aaron gordons ability to guard is unquestionable" yet i just pointed out a bunch of mistakes he made throughout the last game

my main question: does he have the strength/length to defend the PF's of the western conference (Griffin, Aldridge, Duncan, Love, Nowitzki, Davis, Randolph.. etc)

and your going to pull the 18 year olds make mistakes card.. doesnt that apply to Vonleh too ?
 
PG_AB is winning this....

I'm still wicked worried about adding another non-passer who currently struggles in PnR defense. But, yeah, we aren't gonna get a player at 5 who doesn't have some big question marks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top