Gordon VS. Vonleh

[Crawlnstall]

That 60 percent is insane

I believe he only attempted something like 19 or 20 3's for the year...its still a great % but he didn't venture out there very often

 

[Sexual Favors]

on 11/22 vs Uconn the refs called one of the tightest games i saw all year, i can remember being furious about a few calls and Noah only played 10 minutes. his assists aren't good, but center was playing a new position in a very bad offense, he was a faceup player in HS as he will be in the NBA. IU lost two top 4 picks in the previous draft and played like it.

Aaron Gordon was playing on one of the best teams in the nation, loaded with 5 star recruits

Thanks for clearing up the facts of the game. I hadn't watched it.

If A. Gordon played on a better team than Vonleh, then isn't it also safe to assume that touches would've been harder to come by for him? Yet, he was able to get shots because of his athleticism and determination. What if he was truly featured in the offense?

With Vonleh playing on the inferior team, but being the superior prospect, why didn't he take over?

Noah scored 11.3 points on 7.3 shots
Gordon scored 12.4 points on 10.1 shots

With Vonleh being as offensively potent as he appears on paper, why is he only shooting 7.3 x a game,? Seems like a very passive, or "sissy" mentality to me. One that is already too abundant on our team.

If he isn't scoring, and he can't pass, etc. is he really so much better than A. Gordon offensively? At what point do you question mental makeup?

Is he really better offensively than Kanter? For all the things Kanter does wrong, he has a thirst for putting the ball through the basket.

Favors is another player with an incredible body and potential, but with the propensity to coast. Would pairing these two fairweathers together really bode well for us in the frontcourt?

how is he a sissy? is that really part of your expert analysis, a 247lb 18 year old sissy with a ridiculous rebound rate.. how does that happen?

Already adressed what I meant above.

As for rebounding, A. Gordon is also a great rebounder, who could do it from the wing position for us. He averaged 8 a game.

Favors averaged 10.4 per 36
Kanter pulled 10.1 per 36
Gobert pulled 13 per 36

Our frontcourt isn't struggling to get rebounds.

Add A. Gordon's rebounding to Hayward's 5.4 on the wing, and I think we are doing fine in that department.

The problem last year was RJ only grabbed 3.6 per 36, and Marvin only snagged 7.2 per 36 as a PF. They're gone. Problem solved.

and Gordon shot 35% from 3 but is that really reliable at NBA range? what about 17% from 3 in conference play... that was a fluke???

Is it reliable for any player? It isn't A. Gordon's fault that the college game has different rules than the NBA. Who knows how reliable it is. The point is that his form looks good, despite what his FT's portray. At 18, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he gets dramatically better with more reps, as I've already stated, the form looks decent.

And as for tournament play? That's tournament play. A handful of single elimination games. Most scouts don't factor it too highly. Instead, they view the body of work as a whole.

obviously theirs going to be disconnects in any player comparison how can MKG be a terrible comparison when so many of their stats are damn near identical...

AG - minutes 31.2, 12.4ppg, 49% fg's, 8.0 rebs, 2.0 ast, .9 stl, 1.0 blk
MKG-minutes 31.1, 11.9ppg, 49% fg's, 7.4 rebs, 1.9 ast, 1.0stl, .9blk

Because they are just basic stats that were acheived by two players with very different bodies and skills.

Go look up Jabari Parker's PER 40 and compare it to Anthony Bennett's. They are also identical. Does this mean Parker is going to bust his first year like A. Bennett. I mean they're both said to be tweener forwards.

Dig deeper.

The far superior measurements, 2" of height, TO %, athleticism, and BBIQ posessed by Gordon are very real.

MKG doesnt have exceptional handles?? thats bogus, he grabs rebounds and flys coast to coast

17.1 TO % in college for his possessions tell a different story.

"Aaron gordons ability to guard is unquestionable" yet i just pointed out a bunch of mistakes he made throughout the last game

Yes, in one game. Congrats.

18 yr olds can have bad games. Even so, the fact that A. Gordon, a wing would be gaurding Kaminskey, a center, speaks to A. Gordon's defensive versatility.

I rebuttled your nitpicking with a point about Vonleh having a zero pt game. Does that mean Vonleh will score zero pts now and forevermore? Ha.

my main question: does he have the strength/length to defend the PF's of the western conference (Griffin, Aldridge, Duncan, Love, Nowitzki, Davis, Randolph.. etc)

First of all, I want him as a small forward. This is where his value lies. Slashing, cutting, athletic, face to the basket, dribbling, passing, up tempo, high flyer, great rebounding, defensive guru as a 3.

Second of all, yes he could contain them. He has superior athleticism to all of them, including Blake. Better foot speed. A good wingspan, and stands 6'9" in shoes.

Third of all, Love, Aldridge, Griffin, and Nowitzki din't play any defense themselves.

and your going to pull the 18 year olds make mistakes card.. doesnt that apply to Vonleh too ?

I never said it didn't. But Aaron Gordon is the better prospect for us, and a very serious case could be made that he is also BPA.

 

[Sexual Favors]

BTW, PG_AB, thank you for the civil discussion. I love this ****.

 

[Sexual Favors]

PG_AB is winning this....

I'm still wicked worried about adding another non-passer who currently struggles in PnR defense. But, yeah, we aren't gonna get a player at 5 who doesn't have some big question marks.

Yet the poll reads 22-11 in favor of Gordon, my guy...

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

PG_AB is winning this....

I'm still wicked worried about adding another non-passer who currently struggles in PnR defense. But, yeah, we aren't gonna get a player at 5 who doesn't have some big question marks.

And it's not even close.


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[richgates]

So forgive my ignorance regarding Aaron Gordon as I've only seen some scouting report videos and some highlights. What makes him different than say Derrick Williams? Will someone who has seen both players more than me tell me if they are that different?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Yet the poll reads 22-11 in favor of Gordon, my guy...

Yes. It's tough to overcome stupidity. Plus it's possible that more here know and have seen more of Gordon, and the hype he got all year. Vonleh also played on a bad team with a bad offense with a pg that never got him the ball.


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[Sexual Favors]

So forgive my ignorance regarding Aaron Gordon as I've only seen some scouting report videos and some highlights. What makes him different than say Derrick Williams? Will someone who has seen both players more than me tell me if they are that different?

Very different. Derrick williams is a tweener in a bad way. He isn't quick enough, doesn't really have the body, or skills to play SF. A. Gordon does, but also has enough size to slide into the 4 situationally as is. A. Gordon doesn't have a back to the basket game.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Yes. It's tough to overcome stupidity. Plus it's possible that more here know and have seen more of Gordon, and the hype he got all year. Vonleh also played on a bad team with a bad offense with a pg that never got him the ball.


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While Gordon played on one of the nation's best and still found a way to be impactful, despite not being a feature of the offense.

Gordon can be what you need him to be. The same cannot be said for Vonleh or Randle. Gordon has extra skills as well that complement his team, e.g., passing, ability to defend 1-4 if needed.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

While Gordon played on one of the nation's best and still found a way to be impactful, despite not being a feature of the offense.

Gordon can be what you need him to be. The same cannot be said for Vonleh or Randle. Gordon has extra skills as well that complement his team, e.g., passing, ability to defend 1-4 if needed.

Like I said stupidity is hard to overcome.


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[Sexual Favors]

Like I said stupidity is hard to overcome.


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We could get you a tutor, Pumpkin. Don't worry.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

We could get you a tutor, Pumpkin. Don't worry.

I rest my case.


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[Jeffrey32]

I think Gordon could be a great starting SF for the team and could be the guy to defend the other teams best 3s (Lebron, George, etc.). If he can develop Brewer's ability to cut to the rim, he could be good for 10 points a game. Then if he can develop a jumper, the skies the limit.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

That 60 percent is insane

Vonleh has easy range from the international 3-pt. line (which I guess is about the same as the college 3-pt. line now). A 6'10" guy out on the floor is always going to be able to get open looks.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think Gordon could be a great starting SF for the team and could be the guy to defend the other teams best 3s (Lebron, George, etc.). If he can develop Brewer's ability to cut to the rim, he could be good for 10 points a game. Then if he can develop a jumper, the skies the limit.

Corey Brewer might be a good comp. I just don't want to draft Corey Brewer at 5.

 

[cowhide]

Very different. Derrick williams is a tweener in a bad way. He isn't quick enough, doesn't really have the body, or skills to play SF. A. Gordon does, but also has enough size to slide into the 4 situationally as is. A. Gordon doesn't have a back to the basket game.

D. Williams was a better outside shooter but Gordon is a better defender.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Corey Brewer might be a good comp. I just don't want to draft Corey Brewer at 5.

Funniest thing I've read today, and I'm reading Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff.

Try adding 45lbs, almost 4" on the wingspan, 3" on the vert,t he ability to drive both ways, dominate the glass, play PF when needed, etc. etc,

Vvvvvery different.

He was also 20 when he was drafted, while A. Gordon is 18.

 

[Sexual Favors]

I rest my case.


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You haven't made a case to rest.

 

[Game6Conley]

Thanks for clearing up the facts of the game. I hadn't watched it.

If A. Gordon played on a better team than Vonleh, then isn't it also safe to assume that touches would've been harder to come by for him? Yet, he was able to get shots because of his athleticism and determination. What if he was truly featured in the offense?

With Vonleh playing on the inferior team, but being the superior prospect, why didn't he take over?

With Vonleh being as offensively potent as he appears on paper, why is he only shooting 7.3 x a game,? Seems like a very passive, or "sissy" mentality to me. One that is already too abundant on our team.


IU didnt get him the ball enough but killing him for not taking over is just hypercritical. IU barely ran plays for him, he'd set screens, rebound and show flashes of Post moves/shooting/blocked shots. often played in a lineup with only 6'7 wingplayers and 6' guards, rebounding was by far his top priority, and he was great. he didnt start the year shooting the 3 ball well, but when conference play started he was making everything.

watching the games was tough, there was just something off about the whole offense there was little rhythm, Yogi Farrell the PG who takes the lionshare of the shots is very much feast or famine, the only thing hes consistent with is over-dribbling. i havent heard anyone who watched IU closely blame him for the offense, more of a prevailing he should have got the ball more

Vonleh was playing Center in the B10 at 18 handling his own vs Kaminsky


If he isn't scoring, and he can't pass, etc. is he really so much better than A. Gordon offensively? At what point do you question mental makeup?

17points per 40 minutes says hes scoring... his passing was not good this year but he was playing out of position, in Highschool he showed the ability to pass the ball just fine in the open court or facing up, hes capable of beating the defense and then dumping the ball off to another big downlow... at IU there was no one like that for him

Is he really better offensively than Kanter? For all the things Kanter does wrong, he has a thirst for putting the ball through the basket.
hes got a shot, if he shows proficiency from 3 in the NBA hes going to be very dangerous
Favors is another player with an incredible body and potential, but with the propensity to coast. Would pairing these two fairweathers together really bode well for us in the frontcourt?

how did you surmize that Noah has a propencity to coast, hes very active and a ball magnet from what i see. this off base generalization stinks of someone talking about a player they didnt actually watch


Already adressed what I meant above.

As for rebounding, A. Gordon is also a great rebounder, who could do it from the wing position for us. He averaged 8 a game.

Favors averaged 10.4 per 36
Kanter pulled 10.1 per 36
Gobert pulled 13 per 36

Our frontcourt isn't struggling to get rebounds.

as much as id love to drink the kool-aid with you on this one, its just not reflected in the stats, the jazz were bottom third of the leauge in almost any rebounding metrics you look at.
Add A. Gordon's rebounding to Hayward's 5.4 on the wing, and I think we are doing fine in that department.

The problem last year was RJ only grabbed 3.6 per 36, and Marvin only snagged 7.2 per 36 as a PF. They're gone. Problem solved.




Is it reliable for any player? It isn't A. Gordon's fault that the college game has different rules than the NBA. Who knows how reliable it is. The point is that his form looks good, despite what his FT's portray. At 18, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he gets dramatically better with more reps, as I've already stated, the form looks decent.

id love to take this seriously but if your not even going to acknowledge the awful streak of 3pt shooting he had in conference play which is like 18 games (more than a slump) then i dont think your really taking into account the full body of work shown by his shooting, you say his form looks decent, i say he doesnt look confident shooting the ball..

And as for tournament play? That's tournament play. A handful of single elimination games. Most scouts don't factor it too highly. Instead, they view the body of work as a whole.




Because they are just basic stats that were acheived by two players with very different bodies and skills.

Aaron Gordon has very different skills from Kidd-Gilchrist how?

Go look up Jabari Parker's PER 40 and compare it to Anthony Bennett's. They are also identical. Does this mean Parker is going to bust his first year like A. Bennett. I mean they're both said to be tweener forwards.

Dig deeper.

The far superior measurements, 2" of height, TO %, athleticism, and BBIQ posessed by Gordon are very real.




17.1 TO % in college for his possessions tell a different story.

is that a stat thats haunted MKG in the pros? absolutely not, 12% both years. it seems like your really stretching to dismiss a litany of similar basic stats by using one advanced stat and 2" of height . some of this really makes me question how much of Gordon and Vonleh youve really seen

MKG has plenty of BBIQ, i dont know why so much of your argument revolves around disparaging his BBIQ and handle. great hes 2" taller, it was always in MKG's scouting report that he plays bigger than his size, see his 19 rebound game vs Louisville if you dont believe me.

Yes, in one game. Congrats.

18 yr olds can have bad games. Even so, the fact that A. Gordon, a wing would be gaurding Kaminskey, a center, speaks to A. Gordon's defensive versatility.

I rebuttled your nitpicking with a point about Vonleh having a zero pt game. Does that mean Vonleh will score zero pts now and forevermore? Ha.




First of all, I want him as a small forward. This is where his value lies. Slashing, cutting, athletic, face to the basket, dribbling, passing, up tempo, high flyer, great rebounding, defensive guru as a 3.

Second of all, yes he could contain them. He has superior athleticism to all of them, including Blake. Better foot speed. A good wingspan, and stands 6'9" in shoes.

if thats truely what you believe then sure i could see why youd want him, seems a bit fantastical to me Blake just scored 25 and 10 in that series vs Ibaka i dont see Aaron Gordon doing better than him

Third of all, Love, Aldridge, Griffin, and Nowitzki din't play any defense themselves.


I never said it didn't. But Aaron Gordon is the better prospect for us, and a very serious case could be made that he is also BPA.

.

 

[Doublea]

With Vonleh playing on the inferior team, but being the superior prospect, why didn't he take over?



With Vonleh being as offensively potent as he appears on paper, why is he only shooting 7.3 x a game,? Seems like a very passive, or "sissy" mentality to me. One that is already too abundant on our team.

I didn't read everything, but I wanted to post about this. It seems people don't realize that college and nba basketball are different. College teams don't need a go to guy/it doesn't work like that. Good teams play better basketball as a team with a better coach. Thats why Jabari lost first round and Wiggins 2nd, with better teams winning the title. I'd also say that most college teams better players are going to b their older more veteran players. Vonleh is 18.