Magic Spray
Well-Known Member
Signed: Al Jefferson's 45-year-old girlfriend and Trey Burke's penis.
Greg Miller re Tanking: "It's Immoral"
- Thread starter The Midnight
- Start date
We've been in danger of that for a (long) while now....
The Jazz by far have the most modestly dressed dancing girls tho, so he kind of can. (if you view dressing provocatively immoral, which I don't, but I know many do)
Magic Spray
Well-Known Member
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Disagree. You got a lot of fans who just want a good solid product they can be proud and enjoy watching. At the end of the day basketball is just a form of escapist entertainment. People want to be able to enjoy it and most will not be able to do so if the team is truly tanking.
Tanking goes against what they want and it goes against making the NBA a quality product overall. So you are doing a disservice to your casual fans (who make up the majority of their fanbase) and NBA as a whole. I know I didnt enjoy watching the Jazz play the Sixers while they were a dumpster team.
Magic Spray
Well-Known Member
No doubt, Sixers took the logic all the way to its terminus. And it sucked.
Although Ben Simmons is a fabulous booby-prize turns out.
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Think of it as a business filing for bankruptcy in order to re-structure.
The Jazz done got ****ed by the market. Left holding the bag. Injuries. The Western Conference turning into Thunderdome. Why not do a Spurs tank, put Gobert on ice, and dive to the bottom, shouldn't be hard playing most games against the West.
Then get Doncic in the draft. bring in a healthy Gobert, Dante, and Doncic to compliment Mitchell (who gets a ton of minutes in the tank). This lets Hood fulfill his destiny as CJ Miles. This perhaps lets Favors be traded at the deadline for a good draft pick.
And the Jazz are right back in the mix next season. Honestly, I have a testimony of this great plan of happiness.
[video=youtube_share;enOx5YZ-Uco]https://youtu.be/enOx5YZ-Uco
But Golden State clearly (and admittedly) tanked that year to get our pick and grabbed Harrison Barnes.
They have now won 2 Championships - I doubt their fans are complaining about the 'disservice' the FO did to them now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMfn6-mb8_4
Jack Strop
Well-Known Member
In response to Greg Miller's statement, I take the Bill Clinton approach: it depends on what your definition of tanking is.
Did the Jazz "tank" to get the #5 pick in 2014? Did they "tank" to get the #12 pick in 2015?
A. If you define "tanking" as intentionally losing games, then no, Utah has never tanked. The team has always tried to win games.
B. If you define "tanking" as not signing decent backups. Of under-staffing to improve your chances at getting a higher lottery pick, then yes, Utah has "tanked" every season from 2013-14 to 2015-16. Jazz had the 28th lowest payroll in most of those seasons. They traded (or let walk) guys like Millsap, Carroll, Foye, etc. And instead of signing quality FA's to replace them, they brought in Tinsley, JLIII, Garrett, etc. traded for notable studs like Beidrins, Rush, Mack, etc. and scoured the DLeague for scrubs - all while having nearly the lowest payroll in the league. The goal of the "GM Tank" was to (hopefully) have 4-5 young players develop into a decent core, be competitive, but have the rest of the team be so bad, that games would be lost and higher draft picks would bring in future franchise or rotational players.
So Mr. Miller...under definition #2 you and Dennis have been incredibly IMMORAL, not even trying to make the playoffs for several seasons while expecting fans to pay the same prices for tickets, concessions and merchandise while you lined your pockets with the money saved by not giving the Jazz a roster at even a league average rate.
I wish the Jazz would be sold to an ownership group willing to go out and spend what it takes to provide a quality product. Mark my words, DL will talk big about having cap flexibility for free agents. But as he's done EVERY single year (minus his pitiful attempt to appease and keep Hayward), he'll then mumble about free agents costing too much. Hood and Exum will end up elsewhere and he'll go value shopping at the .99 cent store for the Jerebko's of the league.
Did the Jazz "tank" to get the #5 pick in 2014? Did they "tank" to get the #12 pick in 2015?
A. If you define "tanking" as intentionally losing games, then no, Utah has never tanked. The team has always tried to win games.
B. If you define "tanking" as not signing decent backups. Of under-staffing to improve your chances at getting a higher lottery pick, then yes, Utah has "tanked" every season from 2013-14 to 2015-16. Jazz had the 28th lowest payroll in most of those seasons. They traded (or let walk) guys like Millsap, Carroll, Foye, etc. And instead of signing quality FA's to replace them, they brought in Tinsley, JLIII, Garrett, etc. traded for notable studs like Beidrins, Rush, Mack, etc. and scoured the DLeague for scrubs - all while having nearly the lowest payroll in the league. The goal of the "GM Tank" was to (hopefully) have 4-5 young players develop into a decent core, be competitive, but have the rest of the team be so bad, that games would be lost and higher draft picks would bring in future franchise or rotational players.
So Mr. Miller...under definition #2 you and Dennis have been incredibly IMMORAL, not even trying to make the playoffs for several seasons while expecting fans to pay the same prices for tickets, concessions and merchandise while you lined your pockets with the money saved by not giving the Jazz a roster at even a league average rate.
I wish the Jazz would be sold to an ownership group willing to go out and spend what it takes to provide a quality product. Mark my words, DL will talk big about having cap flexibility for free agents. But as he's done EVERY single year (minus his pitiful attempt to appease and keep Hayward), he'll then mumble about free agents costing too much. Hood and Exum will end up elsewhere and he'll go value shopping at the .99 cent store for the Jerebko's of the league.
Sure, but those championships have little to do with drafting Harrison Barnes. They never fully tanked a season, or multiple seasons.
Tanking is not having anyone on your team that isnt a rookie or vet minimum contract.
Barnes helped them to get to where they are now. He was part of their 1st Chip before Durant joined. He's a cheap NBA ready talent they didn't have to pay a tonne for.
Also Klay got a tonne of minutes that year and was often their best offensive option that year, that experience catapulted him to where he is today.
enchilada_style
Well-Known Member
I only care about what Gail says.
It's not often I'll go on record and back something you say, but you're right. Barnes' positional versatility was critical in creating the first lineup of death. Furthermore, sitting Curry for the season may not have technically been necessary, but you better believe all that time to heal was critical in his recovery.
Sure, but it's not like they started the season out saying they would tank. Curry had a bad ankle injury, then came back in March and re-injured it a game after returning and had to get ankle surgery.
Yes, they went into super tank mode in the home stretch of that year, but they never fully threw away a season.
And Klay played 24 mpg that year. He hardly got a ton of minutes.
When the Jazz aim for a high lottery pick in the draft, it's not called 'tanking,' it's called 'development' or 'internal growth.' Basically, you take a small group of young players you want to develop, and then give them so little support off the bench that it becomes impossible to win games.
That's what the Jazz did in 2013/14 when our roster had guys like John Lucas III, Diante Garrett, and Jamal Tinsley. Tinsley might have actually been our best PG at times that year.
This year, we're developing Hood and Mitchell primarily.
That's what the Jazz did in 2013/14 when our roster had guys like John Lucas III, Diante Garrett, and Jamal Tinsley. Tinsley might have actually been our best PG at times that year.
This year, we're developing Hood and Mitchell primarily.
They also traded away Monta Ellis for Bogut, even though Bogut wasn't going to play for the rest of the year.
I don't care how they started the tank, or whether they tank a whole year or half a year, what matters is whether they got result. They did. They got bad enough to grab our pick and Harrison Barnes.
We may have started the season wanting to make the playoffs. But **** happens. Gobert is out for nearly 2 months. We CLEARLY don't have enough talent to compete with the League as a whole. We need to recognize the situation and change tact the same way GSW did it.
You don't sail into the storm you're not equiped to survive. You re-tool.
I think the front office knows this, and they also know that Favors is likely to walk for nothing at the end of the season. They've got Jerebko and Udoh on one-year deals at low numbers so they can throw them into a trade if they need to. They can call up Bradley and start giving him minutes mid-season.
Lets see what things look like 25 or 30 games into the season. If the Jazz are like 10-15 or 12-18 at that point, they'll probably look to make moves.
Look at Minnesota last season. The T'wolves were within reach of the 8th seed, but then turned back the last couple of months, ending up with 31 wins and the 7th pick in the draft.
Lets see what things look like 25 or 30 games into the season. If the Jazz are like 10-15 or 12-18 at that point, they'll probably look to make moves.
Look at Minnesota last season. The T'wolves were within reach of the 8th seed, but then turned back the last couple of months, ending up with 31 wins and the 7th pick in the draft.