Gun Control

[fishonjazz]

Thats fine. But I think you missed my point then.

Im all for rights first and foremost. People should be abke to own guns. My problem is that most people only own them because they think they are toys. They collect them like they are stamps, and hardly any people even have safes or a way of keeping them out of other peoples hands. There is just foolish careless attitude people have for them. Thats why I say you should be punished if your gun ends up killing someone. And there should be some kind of limit too. I know people with 20, 30, 40 guns. WTF is that even for? This isnt a game and these arent toys.

People should be held responsible for what their gun does. If its used for criminal activity. Then maybe people will only obtain them for the reasons they are for. Not just because they think they are cool and fun to play with. Im not over playing that either. Thats a big part of american culture. People adore them like they are fancy cars or something. I come across these types all the time.

True and i would add that i own 2 guns and the last time i had any kind of gun safety training was when i was 14 years old. (im mid 30's now)

 

[fishonjazz]

gun control will lead to more and more and more control over guns. thats how politics work it seems.

Possibly, and that would be unfortunate

I dont think there is a right or wrong answer really.

 

[SaltyDawg]

KSL should just shut the whole website down. Why single out guns?

Got this from their mobile app a while back.

 

[Bronco70]

You are 100 percent correct that i have no idea how the guns are sold on ksl, but from your post it seems like you are saying that MOST or MANY sellers require id or permits or something like that... But there are no requirements or regulations that are mandatory?.... So i could in fact sell to whoever i want regardless of age, criminal history, etc etc?

It's entirely possible that a transaction that shouldn't happen, could.

If that is true then i think ksl did the right thing by stopping the POTENTIAL free for all of guns and money.

Currently, private firearms transactions are legal in Utah. KSL is not the problem. People are the problem. When someone who shouldn't have a gun gets one, it is because someone else has acted negligently. But now everyone is in a panic, and want to stop the Titanic from sinking by painting the crown molding.

 

[UGLI baby]

KSL isn't taking some moral stand, they're just covering their own asses.

Duh.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's entirely possible that a transaction that shouldn't happen, could.



Currently, private firearms transactions are legal in Utah. KSL is not the problem. People are the problem. When someone who shouldn't have a gun gets one, it is because someone else has acted negligently. But now everyone is in a panic, and want to stop the Titanic from sinking by painting the crown molding.

Thanks for the info, i will be the first to admit that i dont know much at all about gun laws. (one of my guns was given to me by my father in law and the other was given to me by my dad when i was a kid)

 

[Hotdog]

KSL should just shut the whole website down. Why single out guns?

Got this from their mobile app a while back.

What are J's? And bleezy's?

 

[SaltyDawg]

What are J's? And bleezy's?

Lol, joints and blunts.

 

[Hotdog]

Lol, joints and blunts.

WTF. No way would I have guessed someone would be that stupid. Is that really real? Fess up. Thats photo shop right?

 

[SaltyDawg]

WTF. No way would I have guessed someone would be that stupid. Is that really real? Fess up. Thats photo shop right?

Nope, not photoshopped. Was a real ad. I figured it was probably a cop fishing for morons.

 

[fishonjazz]

So it sounds like we dont want it to be any harder for the "good guys" to be able to get guns, but i think we would all agree that we do want it to be more difficult for the "bad guys" to get them.

So anybody have a good way to make this happen?
Bronco, you seem to be pretty smart and know your gun laws... do you have any thoughts on how this could be achieved?

 

[Hotdog]

So it sounds like we dont want it to be any harder for the "good guys" to be able to get guns, but i think we would all agree that we do want it to be more difficult for the "bad guys" to get them.

So anybody have a good way to make this happen?
Bronco, you seem to be pretty smart and know your gun laws... do you have any thoughts on how this could be achieved?

How about, if you buy a gun you have to have it chained to your waist with a chain belt, permanently, and then fused to your backbone. Its not really unreasonable because guns are so important, nobody can live without them anyways.

 

[SaltyDawg]

So it sounds like we dont want it to be any harder for the "good guys" to be able to get guns, but i think we would all agree that we do want it to be more difficult for the "bad guys" to get them.

So anybody have a good way to make this happen?
Bronco, you seem to be pretty smart and know your gun laws... do you have any thoughts on how this could be achieved?

The bad guys are stealing them now. More laws that don't hinder the guys guys, aren't going to hinder the bad guys.

If bad guys were legally buying guns, then tighter restrictions would probably reduce that. That isn't what's happening though. Bad guys are stealing guns, and will soon be making their own at home.

 

[SaltyDawg]

How about, if you buy a gun you have to have it chained to your waist with a chain belt, permanently, and then fused to your backbone. Its not really unreasonable because guns are so important, nobody can live without them anyways.

How about if you don't want a gun, don't buy one. If you're worried about a bad guy shooting you, hire a personal bodyguard, or buy a gun.

 

[The Thriller]

The bad guys are stealing them now. More laws that don't hinder the guys guys, aren't going to hinder the bad guys.

If bad guys were legally buying guns, then tighter restrictions would probably reduce that. That isn't what's happening though. Bad guys are stealing guns, and will soon be making their own at home.

I keep hearing this. And yet... I don't see any proof of it.

I don't see any proof that these "evil" people would have actually pushed through and obtained illegal weapons. We can always assume that they would have... Think Adam Lanza would have obtained the weapons he did had these weapons been either banned or strongly regulated? Would he have had those guns had his mom not owned them? I doubt it. He wouldn't have passed the exams necessary.

We can always assume that the CO shooter would have and could have obtained those weapons. But perhaps with better regulation he would have tripped up along the way and been caught?

Why not regulate (better) regulate these weapons? Why not make the process of purchasing these weapons much more comprehensive? What do you have to fear?

 

[SaltyDawg]

I keep hearing this. And yet... I don't see any proof of it.

I don't see any proof that these "evil" people would have actually pushed through and obtained illegal weapons. We can always assume that they would have... Think Adam Lanza would have obtained the weapons he did had these weapons been either banned or strongly regulated? Would he have had those guns had his mom not owned them? I doubt it. He wouldn't have passed the exams necessary.

We can always assume that the CO shooter would have and could have obtained those weapons. But perhaps with better regulation he would have tripped up along the way and been caught?

Why not regulate (better) regulate these weapons? Why not make the process of purchasing these weapons much more comprehensive? What do you have to fear?

I think you're not seeing the forest through the trees.

He stole the guns. That's the point. He didn't buy those guns, he stole them. If he would have tried to buy them, he would not have been able to. Current regulations already in place would have prevented him from purchasing any of them.

If his mom, a legal and responsible American, would have been prevented from buying them, then he would have either stole whatever guns she had or stole someone else's guns. The fact that he had an assault rifle didn't matter in this case.

If you're shooting a bunch of little kids, a shotgun, pistol, rifle, assault rifle, doesn't matter, any of them are going to do the job.

If the guy would have got into a shootout with a bystander who was trying to help, and he used an assault rifle that he legally purchased to out gun the potential hero, that would be something to consider. But if he's executing a bunch of unarmed little kids with a gun that he stole, then putting additional regulations on legal purchasers of that type of gun is not going to help.

 

[The Thriller]

I think you're not seeing the forest through the trees.

He stole the guns. That's the point. He didn't buy those guns, he stole them. If he would have tried to buy them, he would not have been able to. Current regulations already in place would have prevented him from purchasing any of them.

If his mom, a legal and responsible American, would have been prevented from buying them, then he would have either stole whatever guns she had our stole someone else's guns. The fact that he had an assault rifle didn't matter in this case.

If you're shooting a bunch of little kids, a shotgun, pistol, rifle, assault rifle, doesn't matter, any of them are going to do the job.

If the guy would have got into a shootout with a bystander who was trying to help, and he used an assault rifle that he legally purchased to out gun the potential hero, that would be something to consider. But if he's executing a bunch of unarmed little kids with a gun that he stole, then putting additional regulations on legal purchasers of that type of gun is not going to help.

Had those weapons been banned, his mother wouldn't have had them and Adam wouldn't have had them. What evidence do we have that he would have tapped into the "black market" and purchased those weapons?

I'm not seeing the evidence that the "bad guys" will just end up with guns anyway. Some might. Some won't.

Regulate this stuff. If you can pass the requirements then you have nothing to be afraid of. If it doesn't affect anyone and anyone truly can just go to the black market to get this stuff then what's the big deal about the added regulation? Why cry about it if you can just go to the black market?

 

[SaltyDawg]

Had those weapons been banned, his mother wouldn't have had them and Adam wouldn't have had them. What evidence do we have that he would have tapped into the "black market" and purchased those weapons?

I'm not seeing the evidence that the "bad guys" will just end up with guns anyway. Some might. Some won't.

Regulate this stuff. If you can pass the requirements then you have nothing to be afraid of. If it doesn't affect anyone and anyone truly can just go to the black market to get this stuff then what's the big deal about the added regulation? Why cry about it if you can just go to the black market?

So are you saying all guns should be banned? Because if those particular guns were banned, the guys mom probably would have had whatever guns were still legal instead (or she would have had them anyway because she was legal). In that case, he would have stole those instead. And whatever type they were, they would still kill an unarmed 5 year old just as easily as any other gun.

Check this out man, 3d printed AR15:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLlJshR6nvg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Anyone can make that, right now, totally unregulated. The printers that do it are brand new. As this technology matures over the next few years, these will get better and better. The one in this video failed after 6 shots. That's not bad for a first attempt with a brand new technology.

You can bet the house that these 3d printed guns will continue to get better and better. Especially if we outlaw buying the guns. It's bad enough if criminals (who are currently very good at making fake checks and fake ids) are working hard at this. But these extra regulations would also have otherwise legal people working at it too.

It's only a matter of time until these 3d printers are cheap enough for common users to buy. And when that happens, there will be many different companies supplying the plastic for them, some stronger than others.

Here's an AK 47 with 3d printed parts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWrp-afq4hw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Seriously man, taking guns from legal people is absolutely not going to stop the bad guys from getting them.

 

[SaltyDawg]

These guys explain the process. They also claim they made one that fired off 200 rounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'm telling you, taking guns away from the good guys is absolutely the wrong thing to do right now. The bad guys have always been able to get guns, but they are about to have a totally unregulated and unlimited supply, for very little cost and very little effort.

 

[JimLes]

I'm telling you, taking guns away from the good guys is absolutely the wrong thing to do right now. The bad guys have always been able to get guns, but they are about to have a totally unregulated and unlimited supply, for very little cost and very little effort.

That's the risk I'd be willing to take. At least I could then easily assume that everyone with a gun is a bad guy. Right now, I'm supposed to trust you when you claim you're not.