Has Jazz on Court Philosophy Changed? Is it enough change?

[Grandpa Jazz]

I think it fairly obvious that to some degree the on court philosophy of the Jazz has evolved a bit under Ty Corbin. Perhaps with the help of others. KOC, Hornacek, Lowe et. al.

We seem to pay a bit more attention to three point shooters than we have for years, closing out better and paying more attention to the
coffin corners. This would be an example of the changes i mean.

We still rely on a regimented offense. Most teams do, but ours i would say is more regimented than about any other. Lapses show up in that philosophy when Miles or Harris for example
just take out of offense, early threes (CLANK). Bringing up another philosophy. I will call it "lay up good/outside shot bad". while it is obvious that a lay up is preferable percentage wise
to an outside shot (assuming you make 1/2 your shots & 3-pointers are less than 1/3), we eschew making it (the three) a part of our offensive philosophy where a bevy of shooters can be
summoned as most every NBA teams can, we sadly have NONE.

It has cost us many losses via our own lack of shooters and our insistence that forcing them to take outside shots is our aim. Notice how some players just seem to smack their lips with relish
when they play the Jazz because they know our system will give them the shots they want and they are excited.
To my view this is a hold over from Coach Sloan's tenure. It's the main reason i waited for the day a new coach would take over the reins. He was a Great old fashioned coach in a changing league IMHO.

I'm sure the posters here can come up with all sorts of observations on this subject. I would like to hear your thoughts. We are not BB genius's on this board or we would be making a living
as a coach somewhere, but i believe we have some very astute analysts here, beyond the ken of the normal average fan. In short the sport is evolving, the question is are we evolving with it?

 

[Dr. Jones]

This is not a knee-jerk reaction to a loss .. No, I don't see great coaching. Substitutions, MAKING Al box out, allowing bad shot selection, etc.

Obviously Ty sees what we would see, and more, but not sure why corrections are not being made. I also admit our roster is not a contender waiting to happen and we're discussing things in hindsight, but some things seem so damn obvious. I'm not looking for a new coach, but I am looking for improvement from Ty just like I am the rooks.

 

[MK11]

I'm sure the posters here can come up with all sorts of observations on this subject. I would like to hear your thoughts. We are not BB genius's on this board or we would be making a living as a coach somewhere, but i believe we have some very astute analysts here, beyond the ken of the normal average fan. In short the sport is evolving, the question is are we evolving with it?

Hmm, I liked your post and question. And waiting for the wise analyses.

 

[Grandpa Jazz]

Absolutely not a knee jerk reaction, i agree. This has nothing to do with a couple of losses. My concerns have been formulating for more than 5 years, and re-reading my own comments realize i didn't even do a good job
describing those concerns. Hopefully i was coherent enough that you all get the gist of my question. I just awoke and haven't had my Coffee yet.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Absolutely not a knee jerk reaction, i agree. This has nothing to do with a couple of losses. My concerns have been formulating for more than 5 years, and re-reading my own comments realize i didn't even do a good job
describing those concerns. Hopefully i was coherent enough that you all get the gist of my question. I just awoke and haven't had my Coffee yet.

Just be glad you awoke, ol' man. Gonna be a good day.

 

[Stoked]

Absolutely not a knee jerk reaction, i agree. This has nothing to do with a couple of losses. My concerns have been formulating for more than 5 years, and re-reading my own comments realize i didn't even do a good job
describing those concerns. Hopefully i was coherent enough that you all get the gist of my question. I just awoke and haven't had my Coffee yet.

What I need is a huge plate of over medium eggs, bacon, a heaping pile of country potatoes, sausage and toast. Then I will be ready for the day.

 

[cowhide]

Man you guys are making me hungry.

First, yes there are certainly obvious changes between Ty and Sloan. Neither are/were perfect. Unfortunately, it seems like Ty is reverting back to the one thing that pissed me off about Sloan. I cannot stand it when a coach pulls hot players simply because its time to substitute. Ty seems to be stuck between making the veterans happy and trying to develop the young guys. If I were coach I would just tell every player they have to earn their minutes. Now everyone has a bad game but great coaching (Popovich) realizes that when a player is hot you don't yank him simply because its time to get the player his minutes.

I think are overall defense seems to be better when the players give a real effort. However we still have a few players who reach and grab instead of move their feet (CJ, AJ are really bad about this). Ty has actually played the young players more than I thought he would. Perhaps things would have been different if the Jazz had a training camp and the schedule wasn't so condensed.

However, a coach still needs players and the Jazz roster as strong as it is, still is flawed. Harris has to go. He is mismatched in our offense. I think eventually AJ needs to go. His defense is not championship caliber and he reverts back to be a black hole at the wrong time. The Jazz NEED to get with the times about 3pt shooting. One of the Jazz biggest weapons was Hornacek, his ability to create his own shot (within the offense) and his outside shooting was crucial during the final years. I know Hornaceks don't grow on trees but the Jazz need to spread the floor more and then pound it inside to our two young guys.

So I see changes but in some ways the Jazz organization hasn't really changed that much.

 

[Grandpa Jazz]

I cannot stand it when a coach pulls hot players simply because its time to substitute. Ty seems to be stuck between making the veterans happy and trying to develop the young guys. If I were coach I would just tell every player they have to earn their minutes. Now everyone has a bad game but great coaching (Popovich) realizes that when a player is hot you don't yank him simply because its time to get the player his minutes.

Great comment cowhide, certainly one of my hot buttons is this issue.

So I see changes but in some ways the Jazz organization hasn't really changed that much.

My concern exactly. Agree with all you said. Iv'e had my caffeine fix now.

 

[vslice02]

Two big differences I see:
1.) The Jazz are not a very good half-court executing team.

One example, we start out in our standard UCLA-sets, but Ty tweaked it a little so while we still pop a shooter out on the weakside, instead of the standard back-cuts and dives if they overplay, we have a built in post-up option on the strong side which limits the spacing to get layups. That takes away the secondary sets, in which the weakside big (who starts out at the opposite elbow) sets a downscreen and we pop a shooter out to the elbow (aka the Horny/Harpring/Korver curl), or we reverse the ball to the weakside and run the same off-ball action again.

Really the only time we can consistently score, our points are generated off isolated post-ups and fastbreak opportunities. The downside is while he have some solid low-post scorers who can get hot, we don't have ones who can carry you consistently (Millsap inconsistent, Jefferson has problems with length such as the Lakers and Hibbert, Favors raw, Kanter inexperienced), and we don't have a low-post passer so our cutters don't cut hard because they know they won't get the ball.

On baseline out-of-bounds plays under Sloan, we ran the same "pick-the-picker" play over half the time (PG sets backscreen for SF down the lane, then pops out off 5-man screen for the baseline jumper. Teams knew it was coming but couldn't stop it. You don't see that this year, the execution - screening, cutting, passing just isn't there.

I'm still somewhat lenient because Ty had a short training camp and preseason to implement our entire offense, but I am concerned he's relying too much on iso's and postups with bigs who can't be depended on for a full 48-minutes and not focusing enough on some of the little things that can get you easy baskets.

2.) Changing lineups.
I feel like Ty is far too regimented with his substitution patterns. Even if a lineup is obviously clicking and on a run, it appears to me that Ty feels like he has some obligation to finish the game with all 5 (or at the very least 4) of his starters. Jerry knew his obligation was to win, even if that meant playing Shandon Anderson down the stretch in Game 6 of the NBA Finals, Bryon Russell at PF against Chris Webber in the 1999 playoffs, Ronnie Price in Game 5 of the 2009 Playoffs and regularly finishing games with bench-players like Antoine Carr and Kyle Korver on the floor.
I don’t know if Ty is worried he’ll upset his veterans (who he relies on for leadership) or what, but like Charles Oakley once said: “If it ain’t broke, don’t break it.”

 

[Weezur]

The defensive changes have been great. Forcing baseline makes this a better team. The problem is the high picknrolls