Has Kessler surpassed Gobert?

[fishonjazz]

Usage matters here. Kessler doesn't do much with the ball at all really, limiting his chances to get a turnover.

Yep. Kessler also might just have better hands

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Kessler has quicker feet and slightly quicker reactions than Gobert.

 

[LogGrad98]

That's very true. Could still also be true that Kessler is just better at blocking shots.

Could be. But again, at least for me, the eye test favors Gobert. Many of Gobert's blocks were nothing short of super-human. Think about those where the offensive player had him beat for a layup and somehow he turned took 2 steps and blocked it at the rim. He is so much more athletic than Kessler that his blocks were earned by chasing it down. Kessler is still in that phase where he gets challenged and most of his blocks are pretty straight up blocks at the rim as expected. I don't know maybe I'm being irrational about it being a huge Gobert fan but I think if people actively avoided Kessler the way they did Gobert he wouldn't get nearly as many blocks even as Gobert did.

 

[LogGrad98]

Yep. Kessler also might just have better hands

Maybe but you can check touches as advanced stats. My bet is Kessler gets far fewer touches.

Now even as a Gobert homer though, I'll admit Kessler will probably be much better in this area in the long run. He's definitely much more offensively coordinated than Gobert, no doubt. That's always been the biggest knock on Gobert, and will end up being the worse knock on him for his career.

Despite the fact that he lead the entire league in offensive efficiency for what, 2 seasons? He's still very underrated on offense and always will be.

 

[LogGrad98]

Kessler has quicker feet and slightly quicker reactions than Gobert.

This is tough to measure objectively obviously but I'd argue his reaction time isn't any better than Gobert's. Maybe he has quicker feet but we've seen a lot more recovery/block at the rim combos from Gobert than Kessler. Seems that if they can get by Kessler then he's just beat. Gobert blocked a lot of those at the rim anyway.

 

[fishonjazz]

This is tough to measure objectively obviously but I'd argue his reaction time isn't any better than Gobert's. Maybe he has quicker feet but we've seen a lot more recovery/block at the rim combos from Gobert than Kessler. Seems that if they can get by Kessler then he's just beat. Gobert blocked a lot of those at the rim anyway.

I think that is more about length than quick feet/reactions

That's one area where gobert will always have Kessler beat. Can't teach length. (Plus I think gobert has a better vertical as well)

 

[LogGrad98]

I think that is more about length than quick feet/reactions

That's one area where gobert will always have Kessler beat. Can't teach length. (Plus I think gobert has a better vertical as well)

Agreed. For Gobert I would chalk up a lot of his blocks to defensive instincts and quick recovery/reaction as things are going on around him. Not necessarily "quick feet" or hands or whatever but an elite feel for how the play develops and response time to follow the play and disrupt it or get the block. I think in just defensive aptitude coupled with physical abilities and skill he is the kind of defensive package you see maybe once a generation. Tough to lock down 4 DPOY without it. Should have been 5 by the way, he got robbed when they gave it to Smart and you could argue he got robbed when they gave it to Draymond as well. No matter what we say about these individual stats, it'll take quite a bit for Kessler to equal or surpass Gobert in this area, if he ever does. But right now it's not particularly close.

 

[zags422]

anyone tuning in to the wolves mavs today has a front row seat. Gobert pulled down an offensive board and then drop stepped on the left block to put up a layup, which then flew 3 feet past the rim and didn’t even hit back board. Kessler surpassed gobert awhile ago. Kessler has so much more coordination and feel around the basket. People would say gobert finishes better but Kessler has never had the luxury of a Donavan Mitchell or a ant/Kat to be able to compare apples to apples. You have to acknowledge their offensive games when considering their defense. Gobert still has defense but I’ll take Kessler with a better overall game

 

[LogGrad98]

Kessler surpassed gobert awhile ago.

Uhhhhhh.


Suuuuuurrre.

He "completely surpassed" a 4x DPOY who lead the league in offensive efficiency twice for entire seasons "a while ago", so in his rookie year? Um. Yeah.

The irrational Gobert hate is beyond ridiculous, bordering on fully absurd.

 

[zags422]

Uhhhhhh.


Suuuuuurrre.

He "completely surpassed" a 4x DPOY who lead the league in offensive efficiency twice for entire seasons "a while ago", so in his rookie year? Um. Yeah.

The irrational Gobert hate is beyond ridiculous, bordering on fully absurd.

When all you do is dunk makes your offensive efficiency ratings a bit higher than reality

 

[zags422]

Also. Gobert is old now.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Yall have short memories. Gobert had terrible hands. I loved Gobert on defense but on offense, guards would dish to him and he bobbled so many balls. It was so maddening because if he could just catch the ball he would have been so much better at the time.

That's where his turnovers often came. Unforced mistakes.

Offensively Gobert was locked down by 6'1" guards in the playoffs. Quin didn't trust Gobert with the ball so we watched Spida chuck.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Gobert was part of a more efficient team with a better scheme and players. Our team is tanking.

The offensive efficiency stats were based on shot attempts. But if you never catch the ball, it's not a shot attempt.

Gobert was the key cog in a better defensive team, no doubt. And the crew we put around him was NOT defensive minded. Gobert for thst reason alone was farther along than Kessler defensively at this stage in his career.

 

[KqWIN]

We have turned into the fans we laughed at when Gobert was on our team. So much of this discussion is about offense (and the aesthetics of offense) when the large majority of these players’ value comes from defense. Defense should not be an afterthought here.

 

[fishonjazz]

We have turned into the fans we laughed at when Gobert was on our team. So much of this discussion is about offense (and the aesthetics of offense) when the large majority of these players’ value comes from defense. Defense should not be an afterthought here.

Ironic that this post immediately follows a post stating:
Gobert was the key cog in a better defensive team, no doubt. And the crew we put around him was NOT defensive minded. Gobert for that reason alone was farther along than Kessler defensively at this stage in his career. (Also the poll results are bigly in goberts favor)

I think most everyone in this thread understands that gobert was a better all around defender than Kessler and better player in total as well.

It's also ok to discuss that Gobert has declined a decent amount from his peak and that it is possible that Kessler might do a couple things better than gobert.

 

[KqWIN]

Ironic that this post immediately follows a post stating:
Gobert was the key cog in a better defensive team, no doubt. And the crew we put around him was NOT defensive minded. Gobert for that reason alone was farther along than Kessler defensively at this stage in his career. (Also the poll results are bigly in goberts favor)

I think most everyone in this thread understands that gobert was a better all around defender than Kessler and better player in total as well.

It's also ok to discuss that Gobert has declined a decent amount from his peak and that it is possible that Kessler might do a couple things better than gobert.

I said Gobert has declined myself, but like I said in my post….almost all of these two player’s value comes from defense. It should be the main talking point, not an afterthought.

If someone talked about Gobert’s value through box score stats and fumbling the ball on offense I would laugh at them when he played for the Jazz. Now that he’s not on the Jazz, my thoughts on that kind of “analysis” haven’t changed. I feel the same way about talking about Kessler in this way.

It’s not about pushing an agenda for one player or the other. It’s just pointing out that evaluating either player in this way does them no justice.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yall have short memories. Gobert had terrible hands. I loved Gobert on defense but on offense, guards would dish to him and he bobbled so many balls. It was so maddening because if he could just catch the ball he would have been so much better at the time.

That's where his turnovers often came. Unforced mistakes.

Offensively Gobert was locked down by 6'1" guards in the playoffs. Quin didn't trust Gobert with the ball so we watched Spida chuck.

For every ball Gobert dropped, he dunked 5 of them with his vertical presence that Walker doesnt have. Gobert is a much much much better offensive player than Kessler.

 

[HadAnEffectHere]

Peak Gobert was an elite player, but he's currently having a pretty bad year. Career lows in ORB%, DRB%, BLK%, and USG% while having his highest TOV% in many years.

He's playing in a horrible offensive context next to McDaniels and Randle but he's also 32.

Is Kessler better than current Gobert? Ehh, maybe, but it's not clear either guy is a top 10 center or anything this year.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

As a French fan, i'm probably more objective than some people here . Rudy is down this year, no doubt.

Could be 2 reasons :
- Father age reach him. Im not convinced with this one
- The team is not fitting will around him. ANT has never be a good passer ( and not sure he will be one day) and adding Randle who is terrible for passing and defense put Rudy in trouble.

It's not a coincidence if last night, they play well 3 quarters mostly because ball was more in the hands of Mike, DDV, NAW and less in ANT and Randle one. They struggle at the fourth when ANT and Randle stop to pass the ball... and Rudy was great during first 3 quarters.


I think Kessler hand are slightly better than Rudy one. Rudy really clumsy at times and you really have to pass him in the right place to expect a good outcome. Kessler will not TO the ball as much as Rudy. I would like to see Kessler surrounded with better players to see more what he can do.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

If I’m ranking Centers this season I have:
1. Jokic
2. Jarrett Allen
3. Isaiah Hartenstein
4. Ivica Zubac
5. Alperen Sengun
6. Walker Kessler
7. Rudy Gobert
Embid doesn’t play enough to qualify. Based on my personal perspective which is basically just the eye test.