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Hayward and other SGs

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doubledribble

Member
Where do you think the current Hayward (the one we saw for the last two nomths) ranks among other shooting guards? I have only ten of them being clearly better:
Wade
Bryant
Ginobili
Harden
Johnson
Allen
Martin
Ellis
Afflalo
Thornton

And another 6 being roughly equal to him (J.R. Smith, George, Terry, Mayo, Green and Crawford). It places him into the 11-17 range, which is slightly above average for a starter. Do you agree or am I just a homer?
 
I'd put Terry clearly ahead of him. But other than that I'll agree. Hayward will probably always be underrated because he does so much more than score the basketball.
 
doubledribble said:
Where do you think the current Hayward (the one we saw for the last two nomths) ranks among other shooting guards? I have only ten of them being clearly better:
Wade
Bryant
Ginobili
Harden
Johnson
Allen
Martin
Ellis
Afflalo
Thornton

And another 6 being roughly equal to him (J.R. Smith, George, Terry, Mayo, Green and Crawford). It places him into the 11-17 range, which is slightly above average for a starter. Do you agree or am I just a homer?
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At this point in his career I don't see Ray Allen as being a better player than Hayward. Also I don't think too highly of thornton to rank him above Hayward (maybe I just don't like the Sactown 1 on 1 mentality of him and evans). So I would include Thornton and Afflalo as more equals that being better players than gordon, IF he continues his consistency and improved play as of late.
 
I see a lot of old guys on that list. Could we see Hayward being one of the top SG's in the league here soon?

I think he could do it, especially if he becomes even more of a scorer. His defense is already stellar. If he put up 20ppg , then he will be an Allstar for sure.
 
I was thinking we were talking about the "Starcraft 2" Hayward. He's clearly the best out of all SGs in the league at that...no doubt.
 
I'm liking Hayward quite a bit. but, you have to know his stats are inflated due to minutes played this month. Averaging 40mpg over the last 9 games.

Gotta love the experience he's getting though. Interesting that he's our go-to guy at the end of games. Too bad he hasn't been able to score or get fouled in those situations. Love that he's taking the ball to the rack though.
 
Keep in mind that for the last 2 mos Gordon has been playing more 2 than 3. I think Hayward is better off at the 2, but he's destined to be a 3 because we got Alec Burks coming up and Hayward is tall enough and quick enough to guard LeBron, KD and Carmelo.

For some reason, Hayward seems to shoot better when he's playing the 2.

P.S. I'd also put Hayward ahead of Allen.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
I'm liking Hayward quite a bit. but, you have to know his stats are inflated due to minutes played this month. Averaging 40mpg over the last 9 games.

Gotta love the experience he's getting though. Interesting that he's our go-to guy at the end of games. Too bad he hasn't been able to score or get fouled in those situations. Love that he's taking the ball to the rack though.
Click to expand...


Interesting to me that his go-to move was the same move that didn't work against Duke. It's failed three times now!
 
BluesRocker said:
I see a lot of old guys on that list. Could we see Hayward being one of the top SG's in the league here soon?

I think he could do it, especially if he becomes even more of a scorer. His defense is already stellar. If he put up 20ppg , then he will be an Allstar for sure.
Click to expand...
That is what I was thinking as well. In a couple of years a lot of old guys will drop off, and Hayward's competition would be guys like Harden, Afflalo and Thornton. I can easily see him as a top-3 SG in the West in a year or two.
 
Here's a list of the most efficient SG's since the AS game (Eric Gordon is also better than Hayward at the 2): https://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/12/3/eff/18-1

Here's a list of the most efficient SF's since the AS game (Hayward is listed in this one at #8): https://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/12/4/eff/18-1

There are some 2's that are too fast for Hayward (basically PG's in SG's' bodies). I have not seen a SF abuse Hayward like Gordon did in NO, so I'm leaning toward his being a 3, but he is versatile enough to be either one. If he can get a quality post game, than he can abuse the munchkin SG's and thus negate their advantage of speed. Oh and by the way, he would be ranked eighth in efficiency at either the SG or SF spot according to this efficiency rating above.
 
all things considered (current play + future possibilities, both ends of the floor, abilities + intangibles) there are guys on that list i would pass on for gordon knowing what we know today.

thornton, for example is not a winner, plays no defense, and isn't going to get much better than he is today.

martin struggles to stay healthy, can't guard a chair, and has never been a top-3 guy for a winning team.

i could poke holes in ellis and afflalo too, but yeah, overall they probably still belong above hayward.

ray allen is a close call because of age -- you're going to get a whole lot more out of hayward than allen going forward.
 
I'm a firm believer that the stats of players on tank teams is misjudged, which is why I think Thornton should be held off.
 
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