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Hayward has agreed to an offer with Hornets

Beantown said:
Lol like who?
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name some free agents....
bazemore, ariza, marvin Williams, Richard Jefferson, jimmer..... basically any player who is a free agent or restricted free agent. There is probably a list somewhere that you could look up. I think we could also pay our money to other players via trades.
 
fishonjazz said:
Yup, salary dump.....that is what everyteam hopes for when they sign a player to a huge contract.

"boy I hope one day Hayward can turn into a salary dump for us"
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Sorry I wasn't clear enough... Toronto got what we got for taking on the Golden State salary dump.

I agree if we match this hoping just to get out of it later it would be silly.

I really wish we had a competent coach last year so that I felt like we had run a system that complimented our current team (not that Corbin is fully responsible for Hayward's issues) I just wish we didn't have the Corbin cloud of uncertainty circling these young guys. We really needed to see what these guys could do well, but instead I feel like we were trying to squeak a couple extra wins out of a dog season. Not Corbins fault... really KOC and DL should have stepped in.
 
fishonjazz said:
name some free agents....
bazemore, ariza, marvin Williams, Richard Jefferson, jimmer..... basically any player who is a free agent or restricted free agent. There is probably a list somewhere that you could look up. I think we could also pay our money to other players via trades.
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seattlejazzfan said:
Parsons, Deng, Ariza?

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I forgot about deng and ariza........... but to answer your question Beantown, we can offer money to any and every free agent and restricted free agent and also trade for players with large salaries (iirc since we are under the cap we can take on more salary than we give away in a trade scenario). So basically every player in the nba
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Parsons, Deng, Ariza?

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Deng is looking for a contender and not an age fit... same thing with Ariza. Parsons will be overpaid just like Hayward and is similar in talent. Don't even know if we could get him signed to a max offer sheet.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Deng is looking for a contender and not an age fit... same thing with Ariza. Parsons will be overpaid just like Hayward and is similar in talent. Don't even know if we could get him signed to a max offer sheet.
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He asked who. I gave some options. Your response? Pure speculation. Maybe Deng would rather $9 M from utah than $6 M from a contender. Same for Ariza. Maybe you get the similarly talented Parsons for $12-13 M - still perhaps too much, but better than G-time's $16 M per.

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GVC said:
Go get Lance.
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This.


Is it a risk? Yep. Are his percieved "issues" overblown? I believe so.

But, nah, taking risks is for either true winners or true losers, we want to be the Utah Mediocre's.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
He asked who. I gave some options. Your response? Pure speculation. Maybe Deng would rather $9 M from utah than $6 M from a contender. Same for Ariza. Maybe you get the similarly talented Parsons for $12-13 M - still perhaps too much, but better than G-time's $16 M per.

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If we could get Parsons for 12 M I'd rather go that route... and everything is speculation. You did provide some names... didn't mean to attack you. I just think everyone is going to get "overpaid" this offseason.

Also, Deng and Ariza are both older. They will be aging veterans on their way out of the league when our team is entering its prime in 3-4 years. I just see them as a short term fit that will be similarly overpriced. I'd rather keep the high priced guy who will be in his prime when the team is ready to compete for something significant.

BTW I think Cleveland misses out on LeBron and offers either Ariza or Parsons something ridiculous.
 
Ellis269 said:
All good points. The part in bold is one that I've been bouncing around in my head since the announcement. Did he earn this contract? If the Jazz match, it will be because they think that he has the potential to earn the contract. It's not based on what he's done so far, but what they expect him to do moving forward. I think that the team set him up to fail. I think that they knew this team would be a dumpster fire under Ty Corbin as a lame-duck coach and they're not holding it against their players because of that.

I don't think that any of the young players have really been developed well at all - that includes Hayward. He was given the chance to be "the guy" on a team in transition, losing it's top two assets (Jefferson and Millsap) and not having any clear direction or system on offense or defense. What the hell did people expect to happen? I'm pretty sure that the results match the organization's intent. Hayward should have stepped up more as a leader and as a #1 option, but I think that playing for the worst head coach in the league - who's trying desperately to save his job - is bound to have a negative impact on any young player.

I don't think he's worth the full max contract. I had it pegged around $13 or $14 million. I'm 90% certain that the Jazz will match this contract. Can he live up to those lofty expectations under a new coach who is known for his player developmental skills? I sure as heck hope so.

I think that Gordon Hayward with a clearly defined role on his team and improved players around him is a guy that most teams would want to have. I ask myself what kind of contract we'd have to offer him if he had played for the Suns last year under Hornacek. . . I'm pretty sure that it would be a MAX contract and we'd be talking about him with the type of reverence some have shown towards Bledsoe, Parsons and/or Monroe. In fact, we'd probably be talking about how Utah is a Free Agency Dead Zone and "Why the hell would Gordon Hayward even want to come here when he has other options out there?" The plain and simple fact is that he doesn't have a choice and he doesn't have any options if the Jazz choose to match the contract. He's been professional about this whole situation and people continue to bash him for trying to maximize his value. In the world of highly competitive sports, it only takes one team that loves you to make a ridiculous amount of money. Gordon Hayward is worth this contract as much (if not more) than Roy Hibbert or Eric Gordon or Jrue Holliday were of getting their MAX contracts in RFA. At least Gordon Hayward hasn't gone out and begged the Jazz not to match the contract. He's played his hand perfectly and is about to get paid a lot of money because he bet on himself. I think he has a lot more intelligence and confidence than many posters around here are willing to admit.

I don't think that Chandler Parsons, Eric Bledsoe or Greg Monroe have earned MAX contracts either, but with all the cap space out there this offseason, it wouldn't surprise me to see any of them get a deal similar to what Hayward is getting. They're all getting overpaid regardless. . . Do you really think that Phoenix, Detroit or Houston will just not match because the market has inflated their value?
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I like your post, but I think you're overlooking something pretty basic, which is that Gordon Hayward just isn't that amazing to begin with. He was never going to develop into a max player, regardless of how awesome the staff he was learning under was.
 
Bodhi said:
This.


Is it a risk? Yep. Are his percieved "issues" overblown? I believe so.

But, nah, taking risks is for either true winners or true losers, we want to be the Utah Mediocre's.
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Risk is fine... I'd just personally rather not go all in on this guy. We just aren't close enough to being a winner to take that kind of risk.

Lance reminds me of JR Smith. There is the cute funny stuff he does where you just go "thats so Lance" and laugh, but there is more to it than just that crap. I don't think you want to give long-term money to guys like that. Something weird went on with that team last year and I'm not sure Lance was the problem, but I'd be scared out of my mind to pay this guy guaranteed money hoping he'll mature/behave.
 
Stoked said:
Oh I agree with you, not a fan of the deal. Especially the kicker. But this doesn't ruin the team as some have suggested (not you).
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It may not ruin the team, but it certainly doesn't help the team.
We can't know what decisions later this summer (or in the next couple of years) will be negatively impacted by overpaying right now. People are acting like this deal is in isolation. Either we keep Hayward or we lose him. If he is NOT with the team that spot isn't empty... We will fill that spot with another player. The question is... can we A) get a player who will have a similar impact on the team for less money, or B) can we find someone who will make a greater difference tot he team for $16 mil? If the answer is NO to both questions we have to match... as much as I hate the idea.
(Personally I think the answer is Yes to A and possibly to B as well...)
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Risk is fine... I'd just personally rather not go all in on this guy. We just aren't close enough to being a winner to take that kind of risk.
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Sounds like you are talking about hayward.

stephenson is a couple of years younger than hayward btw
 
b_line said:
One question I have is can the Jazz make their own contract with a guaranteed fourth year, or do they only have the option of the exact offer charlotte gives him once the offer is signed?
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There's a reason it's called MATCHING the offer, not CLOSE-TO-THE-SAMING the offer.
 
gandalfe said:
There's a reason it's called MATCHING the offer, not CLOSE-TO-THE-SAMING the offer.
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oh, really. Thats cool you are so clever. I was wondering if the offer exceeds the previous offer if they could do that. Anyone with actual knowledge of how the CBA works know this? I would assume that the Jazz still have the option to offer a 5 year deal, and don't have to match the 4 year deal if they want to lock him up longer term.

Also, I am not suggesting they should give him a five year max with 4.5% raises. Just a question.
 
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