Sounds like Elder Hayward has been doing most - if not all - of that.
Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)
- Thread starter udflyer
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Sounds like Elder Hayward has been doing most - if not all - of that.
cctrackstar
Well-Known Member
Hayward: Sign the stupid extension, don't try to maximize your earning, the offer is fair based on performance up to this point. You aren't a superstar, and if you become one, you will be right in your prime as of your next free agency. Don't alienate yourself to your fanbase, it didn't work out for Kirilinko among others.
Fishsticks
Banned
Stfu already and stop being an idiot.
Hayward needs a sister that doesn't get online and embarrass him with asinine posts a whole lot more.
blackham9258
Member
I agree. Does Gordon really want to get 2-3M more next year from another team that he doesn't deserve? Because that is what the market will pay because that is what teams have to do to get RFA's away from other teams. Its not that the players deserve the extra 2-3M per year, its that that is what you have to do to ensure that the other team doesn't match. Players that take this route to get paid money they don't deserve... deserve to get whats coming to them. Usually this ends up being bad for the player and the team that takes them away.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
As would I.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
As of now I feel 10 is a fair deal, but we aren't paying him for now just like we aren't paying Favors for what he is now. In my opinion we are paying him for what he'll be in a year or two. And that could be just below the max. 12 could end up being a bargain price, just a little surprised some don't think he'll get any better, and if we happen to get a franchise player in this draft, that would go a long way to make Hayward that much more affective as a lot of pressure would be taken off especially if that star is a wing like Parker or Wiggins. If the jazz didn't have to count on him for scoring. He could be our Scottie Pippen to his Jordan. A guy who Scores 15-18 points a game with 5 boards and 7 assists, with the accasional big game, which would make Parker or Wiggins job a whole lot easier.
green
Well-Known Member
A couple of things:
1- if he was worth 12-13, we would have made the playoffs last year.
2 - our offense didn't suck last year. Our defense did. Hayward lost Al, Paul and Mo. He will be our best offensive option and teams know this. His %'s are going to fall hard.
3 - Burke is the pg and a shoot first pg. We have already seen that Kanter releases to run the floor. Option#1 will be Burke/Kanter running the floor. Option #2 will be the post. That makes Hayward, at best, option #3. Also, we know that Favors, Kanter and Burke aren't afraid to shoot and probably don't feel pressure to defer to Hayward.
4 - This deal will go to the last day and then Hayward will sign a 4/36 or 4/40 with incentives up to 12 per. Not a big deal.
1- if he was worth 12-13, we would have made the playoffs last year.
2 - our offense didn't suck last year. Our defense did. Hayward lost Al, Paul and Mo. He will be our best offensive option and teams know this. His %'s are going to fall hard.
3 - Burke is the pg and a shoot first pg. We have already seen that Kanter releases to run the floor. Option#1 will be Burke/Kanter running the floor. Option #2 will be the post. That makes Hayward, at best, option #3. Also, we know that Favors, Kanter and Burke aren't afraid to shoot and probably don't feel pressure to defer to Hayward.
4 - This deal will go to the last day and then Hayward will sign a 4/36 or 4/40 with incentives up to 12 per. Not a big deal.
pickledXgrandma
Well-Known Member
Mods please merge with "circumcision" thread.
Guitaro
Well-Known Member
That's exactly the kind of thinking that got us stuck with AK's contract and mediocrity for years to come. There's only so much cap space available. If you tie up nearly half of that with 2 players, those 2 players better be your two best players long-term, not right now when we stink.
Guitaro
Well-Known Member
That is a good point, and I did make a similar point somewhere else, but it's important not to tie up too much $ when we will need it. The Jazz need to decide when they think they'll need to start spending money on free agents. Next, like u said below your above post, maybe give Hayward a heavily front-loaded contract starting next season and the next. Finally, on the last 2 years (I think 5 total is only for max players now, right?), his contract won't be so bad.
However, the other problem with that thinking is what will Hayward expect on his following contract? In 4 years, we could have a team full of All-Stars. Who knows, right? If we start lower now then his next extension will also be lower. The total salary, down the road, is what we need to be worrying about and not just these next few years. If the Jazz can show Hayward their long-term vision, then he might be more willing to sacrifice for that vision.
Best solution?
If Hayward wants a nice contract, maybe make it look good on paper but also protect the Jazz with incentives that also have to be met to get that payday. For example, if Hayward doesn't reach All-Star status by a certain point then he loses a % of his contract overall, spread out over all 4 years. If he doesn't have a certain efficiency rating by a certain time, then they can dock the contract as well, or just not pay him that incentive. I would suggest having a second deal in place for the following extension, but that's what got the TWolves and Joe Smith in trouble for many years.
The main problem is that the Jazz don't have a Tim Duncan-like leader or a Wade-type leader that can convince other guys to take less and stay with the team because they have a good thing going. We're not anywhere near that yet. Even if we get Wiggins or Parker next year, there's no telling how much time they would need to become that kind of leader.
Reality?
I'm guessing the two sides could settle on $10.5 million a year with incentives. I'd still front-load the contract so the last 2-3 years are like Millsap's, closer to 7 or 8 million.
Guitaro
Well-Known Member
More money doesn't automatically equal "smart decision". There are so many more factors that can affect someone's lifetime than money. Surroundings and people you're surrounded with affect you so much more than your income.
In reality, his income actually limits his options because celebrities with that kind of money are usually hounded a lot more because people tend to ask for their money a lot more.
At least in Utah, people are much more respectful of players' space and usually treat celebrities as regular people with interesting jobs (in my experience).
Bigger cities have more media and more paparazzi. I wouldn't curse that on anyone.
Litany
Well-Known Member
@DJJazzyJody: Jazz GM Dennis Lindsey said Derrick Favors' agent's first question wasn't about money. It was: "Can you keep the young core together?"
@TNewm2215: "The first question Wallace (Derrick's agent) asked me wasn't how much money can we get, it was can you keep this young core together."
@Lockedonsports: Amazing to see Derrick Favors here and realize he is only 15 days older than Karl Malone when he debuted for Jazz
@DJJazzyJody: Dennis Lindsey: "We look forward to keeping the core together."
@TNewm2215: "The first question Wallace (Derrick's agent) asked me wasn't how much money can we get, it was can you keep this young core together."
@Lockedonsports: Amazing to see Derrick Favors here and realize he is only 15 days older than Karl Malone when he debuted for Jazz
@DJJazzyJody: Dennis Lindsey: "We look forward to keeping the core together."
I like how Favors thinks because in the end if you make a few more millions but your team sucks then is it really worth it. Funny how players who haven't won a championship are signing for next to nothing to get a chance to do it.
The reason why the Jazz should not overpay for Hayward is because next season the Jazz have a very good chance of drafting his replacement.
Does anyone think Hayward is better than Parker/Wiggins? I am a big James Young fan and he would be nice to have too. Don't know if Young will be as good as Hayward but the difference isn't that great if Young is as good as I think he is.
When a team has options they should NOT over pay for a player. If Hayward is demanding too much money then he is expendable. One player does not make a team especially a Hayward type player. Do not get me wrong, I want Hayward on the team but at the right price. Anything over $10 million is too much and even that is too much in my opinion.
Front load the contract the first two years so his financial hit won't be so much when it is time to keep the other guys. In the end, the Jazz are going to lose one or two of their guys if they all pan out.
Litany
Well-Known Member
@DJJazzyJody: Jazz CEO Greg Miller on Gordon Hayward contract: "The sooner we can get all that worked out, the sooner it’s not going to be a distraction."
@DJJazzyJody: Miller: "We’ve seen a lot of growth and development with (Hayward) ... and I’m very interested in keeping him as a member of the Utah Jazz."
@DJJazzyJody: Miller: "We’ve seen a lot of growth and development with (Hayward) ... and I’m very interested in keeping him as a member of the Utah Jazz."
l Abach l
Well-Known Member
These are the same sentiments I have! Back before we drafted D Will and traded for Boozer, AK was the man and looked great - on a crappy team that didn't make the playoffs. I just remember in 07-09 when all we were missing was one player to win it all. AK's contract was the reason we couldn't sign anyone.. Hayward is a great player with a great skill set, but I also think he isn't worth more than 10 million a year.
