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Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)

b_line said:
I think what you meant is that they didn't play on the same team... playoff records are meaningless when your whole team is built around an inefficient center, and an undersized power forward.
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I'm so tired of the comparisons to George I could puke.

The Jazz screwed up picking Hayward instead if PG. Get over it.

PG is the best player on a team that almost ousted LeBron. Hayward was the 3rd option on a team that didn't make the playoffs and is below average defender and can't create for himself.

K Pelton was asked about Hayward's ranking on NBA2k and if it was fair. I Pelton said Hayward is a below average defender.

PG is considered by most to be the best perimeter defender in the league.

Let's Stop comparing PG to Hayward. It's embarrassing.
 
And as someone mentioned, Hayward's only appearance in the playoffs was an embarrassment. At least Favors showed us SOMETHING.
 
Lattimer said:
I'm so tired of the comparisons to George I could puke.

The Jazz screwed up picking Hayward instead if PG. Get over it.

PG is the best player on a team that almost ousted LeBron. Hayward was the 3rd option on a team that didn't make the playoffs and is below average defender and can't create for himself.

K Pelton was asked about Hayward's ranking on NBA2k and if it was fair. I Pelton said Hayward is a below average defender.

PG is considered by most to be the best perimeter defender in the league.

Let's Stop comparing PG to Hayward. It's embarrassing.
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I didnt compare them, all I said was that it was unfair to compare them based on their team success when PG was clearly given the keys to his team, and Hayward was third to two vet big men.
 
I love Hayward and want him on the team, but I don't want to overpay. He has to be more consistent before he's worth more than what the Jazz are offering. He has shown us what he can do, but he hasn't shown us (yet) that he can do that night in and night out.
 
sgjazzfan said:
Yeah, my point was, don't pay over market value based on potential. Hayward is a good deal at 10-11 per year. At 12-13, that is overpriced, unless he has a big jump.
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I'm in the same ballpark as you, although I'd take the numbers down slightly for a "good deal". I'd say he's a good deal at 10.

What some of the "pay Hayward!" people don't seem to get is how critical it is to properly price players, especially given the new CBA which turns a previously soft cap into a much harder one. If you make a $1-2 mill/year error on, say, four players, that's enough of a difference to pay for a legit all star (say $18 mill/year) instead of a borderline all star (say $12 mill/year). And that is probably the difference between the Jazz fighting to make the playoffs, and being a contender for championships.
 
colton said:
I'm in the same ballpark as you, although I'd take the numbers down slightly for a "good deal". I'd say he's a good deal at 10.

What some of the "pay Hayward!" people don't seem to get is how critical it is to properly price players, especially given the new CBA which turns a previously soft cap into a much harder one. If you make a $1-2 mill/year error on, say, four players, that's enough of a difference to pay for a legit all star (say $18 mill/year) instead of a borderline all star (say $12 mill/year). And that is probably the difference between the Jazz fighting to make the playoffs, and being a contender for championships.
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Yep, as much as it sucks smart teams have to be willing to let good players walk instead of overpaying them.
 
udflyer said:
Hayward should buy all in attendance a free Dog&Beer Wednesday nite if he gets the Jazz to cave
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Hayward would never do this. In fact, I don't even know if he would by his friends a hot dog and a beer; he certainly didn't pay their way into the theme park they went to this year, and was saying stuff like, "that's 100 dollars each." To steal an analogy from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, "if you stuffed a lump of coal up Hayward's ***, in two weeks, you'd have a diamond."
 
Lattimer said:
I'm so tired of the comparisons to George I could puke.

The Jazz screwed up picking Hayward instead if PG. Get over it.

PG is the best player on a team that almost ousted LeBron. Hayward was the 3rd option on a team that didn't make the playoffs and is below average defender and can't create for himself.

K Pelton was asked about Hayward's ranking on NBA2k and if it was fair. I Pelton said Hayward is a below average defender.

PG is considered by most to be the best perimeter defender in the league.

Let's Stop comparing PG to Hayward. It's embarrassing.
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For whatever reason, some Jazz fans have become far too emotionally attached to Hayward and have totally lost perspective on his true value. I've seen some of the Hayward fanboys pimping him as the next Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Jeff Hornacek, Manu Ginobili, etc. Please...how about a realistic comparison like, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Landry Fields or Danny Green. It's like a parent thinking his child is the next Michael Phelps just because they can swim a couple laps in a pool. Let's temper down the expectations and see Gordon for what he really is: A smart, solid role player that doesn't do anything extremely well, but can be a great complimentary player as a 2nd or 3rd option.
 
akirac73 said:
For whatever reason, some Jazz fans have become far too emotionally attached to Hayward and have totally lost perspective on his true value. I've seen some of the Hayward fanboys pimping him as the next Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Jeff Hornacek, Manu Ginobili, etc. Please...how about a realistic comparison like, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Landry Fields or Danny Green. It's like a parent thinking his child is the next Michael Phelps just because they can swim a couple laps in a pool. Let's temper down the expectations and see Gordon for what he really is: A smart, solid role player that doesn't do anything extremely well, but can be a great complimentary player as a 2nd or 3rd option.
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Landry Fields? He is no where near as good as Hayward. I agree he is not the next Bird or Pippen, but let's be realistic about this. He is better than Dunleavy Jr, and way better than Landry Fields. Danny Green is not a real comparison either. Green had one good playoff series, not much else.

Comparing him to these guys is just as bad as the guys comparing him to Bird and Pippen. Nobody on this board thinks Hayward is a max player. All they are saying is that he is a good player, and they want the Jazz to keep him, even if it costs a little bit more than what online message board posters think it should...
 
NUMBERICA said:
IF TRUE (huge caveat), that is amazing.
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It is amazing, but one thing to consider is that teams don't even bat an eye at giving a big contract to a modestly skilled guy who is over 6'10". Hayward has to fight for the money, because teams view him as replaceable. Whether he is replaceable or not is another question. (His production probably is, but one question no one is asking in this is that young guys take a while to develop and get the system. Favors is interested in keeping the young core together for reason. He knows that they have put in the time to become a winning team. Everyone is clamoring for Wiggins or Parker, but what no one is saying is that they are only 19 years old. Even LeBron didn't really start winning for a few years.)
 
b_line said:
I think what you meant is that they didn't play on the same team... playoff records are meaningless when your whole team is built around an inefficient center, and an undersized power forward.
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What about playoff stats? Are they meaningless too.
That shooting percentage is pretty bad
 
fishonjazz said:
What about playoff stats? Are they meaningless too.
That shooting percentage is pretty bad
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Yes it is bad, but you can't call a 4 game sample size "playoff stats". And you especially can't call them that when your best offensive weapon basically tells the other team he gives up, giving the opposing team license to sag off of him, and only guard the players that are going to score, or care about the game.

yes, I get that Hayward sucked in the playoffs, but lets wait to compare him to anyone who has had playoff success until he actually plays some playoff games with a team built for the playoffs. I get that he sucked that series, but you can not just ignore the other 200 or so games he has played and say he is that player because of 4 playoff appearances.
 
I think G-Time will be a Jazzman beyond this season regardless, but I really hope the deal gets done before the deadline regardless. I think it would be good for both parties. I'd offer him 4 yr/$52M with a player option for a 5th year. I think he would accept that now and would likely command more on an inflated RFA deal next offseason, meaning the organization would likely save $ by getting the deal done now.
 
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