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Hayward Should Be At the 2

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Hayward needs to be at the 2. He has a mismatch there. At the three its often a push. Burks can come off the bench.
We kind of have a dilema. Both Gordy and Burks should be at the 2. Hayward can play some three but he should spend a lot of time at the two also.
The guy can even guard point guards. That could be huge for us to have defensive stopper like him at the two.
 
I like getting a SF and letting GH play both positions, depending on matchups ............................................
 
Hayward's a basketball player more than a "shooting guard" or "small forward"...and as we saw against the Celtics - he'll compete hard at either position on the wing. The only reason I'd have a preference whether he plays the 2 or 3 is based on defensive matchups and who he has to guard - and from that standpoint I do like him more at SG - but for the most part his role offensively doesn't change at either position. If he gets a little stronger and learns some of the nuances of how to play physical defense without fouling - I think he could eventually play either position effectively. At this point I'd try to match him up on more 2's than 3's but I wouldn't pigeonhole him at any position just yet.

I'm hoping next year we see Burks at PG and Hayward at SG. Their length on D would be sick, and both have shown good playmaking ability already.
Hayward belongs at the two. Heck he can even play the point
Huge difference between "has the tools to play PG in an emergency" and "can play the point." Burks and Hayward aren't PG material. They need to focus on playing the wing, continue their development at that position and learn how to defend and how to get good looks from those positions before the Jazz experiment with either playing PG on a consistent basis.
 
Hayward's a basketball player and by evidence against the Celtics - he'll compete hard at either position on the wing. The only reason I'd have a preference whether he plays the 2 or 3 is based on defensive matchups and who he has to guard - and from that standpoint I do like him more at SG - but for the most part his role offensively doesn't change much whether he's labeled a SG or SF. If he gets a little stronger and learns some of the nuances of how to play physical defense without fouling - I think he could eventually play either position effectively. At this point I'd try to let him defend 2's more than 3's but wouldn't pigeonhole him at any position just yet.



Huge difference between "has the tools to play PG in an emergency" and "can play the point." Burks and Hayward aren't PG material. They need to focus on playing the wing, continue their development at that position and learn how to defend and how to get good looks from those positions before the Jazz experiment with either playing PG on a consistent basis.

I don't think anybody is lobbying for Burks to play any kind of traditional PG role.

It's a simple sum:
1. Burks appears to be able to guard opposing PGs
2. Hayward and Burks appear to have the skills to initiate an offense
3. Hayward will need minutes at the 2 and Burks will need to find minutes elsewhere when that is especially true.
THEREFORE
4. We need to experiment with Burks GUARDING opposing PGs + employing an offense wherein there isn't a traditional PG on the floor.

And, yes, I've nearly given up on seeing this.
 
I don't think anybody is lobbying for Burks to play any kind of traditional PG role.

It's a simple sum:
1. Burks appears to be able to guard opposing PGs
2. Hayward and Burks appear to have the skills to initiate an offense
3. Hayward will need minutes at the 2 and Burks will need to find minutes elsewhere when that is especially true.
THEREFORE
4. We need to experiment with Burks GUARDING opposing PGs + employing an offense wherein there isn't a traditional PG on the floor.

And, yes, I've nearly given up on seeing this.

Wondering ... what's your gut .. can Burks guard two-thirds of the PG's in the league?
 
Wondering ... what's your gut .. can Burks guard two-thirds of the PG's in the league?

Honestly, with the way the league is officiated, I've started to doubt 98% of players' ability to "lockdown" the opposing wings. Elite defenders at 1-3 are worth their weight in gold. (MKG!)

I think Burks can significantly disrupt at least 2/3rds the opposing PGs... especially backups. At the very least, I think he can siphon them into our burgeoning superior interior defense on our own strategic terms. That is -- given my comments above -- really all I would hope for.

make sense? that was kinda jargony.
 
Burks still needs to work on his defense some. Im not sure he is going to guards point guards.

We have seen Hayward actually guard some point and does it very well. I think Hayward is a better defender than Burks and probably will be his whole career.

Im serious, I would like to see Hayward play the point. I agree with NAOS pretty much. I would just switch Haward to the point. Im not so sure Burks would play better point than Hayward.
 
Burks still needs to work on his defense some. Im not sure he is going to guards point guards.

We have seen Hayward actually guard some point and does it very well. I think Hayward is a better defender than Burks and probably will be his whole career.

Im serious, I would like to see Hayward play the point. I agree with NAOS pretty much. I would just switch Haward to the point. Im not so sure Burks would play better point than Hayward.

As much as it pains me, I agree. Going to take a shower, brb.
 
I don't think anybody is lobbying for Burks to play any kind of traditional PG role.
It's a simple sum:
1. Burks appears to be able to guard opposing PGs
2. Hayward and Burks appear to have the skills to initiate an offense
3. Hayward will need minutes at the 2 and Burks will need to find minutes elsewhere when that is especially true.
THEREFORE
4. We need to experiment with Burks GUARDING opposing PGs + employing an offense wherein there isn't a traditional PG on the floor.
1. I think people are underestimating the difference between successfully guarding SG/SF's and successfully guarding PG's.
Huge difference when you're focusing on preventing a player from scoring and when you're trying to prevent penetration without receiving help, in playing primarily side screen-roll and middle-screen-roll, in fighting through 1 ballscreen and fighting through constant screens (and if you're guarding a PG who can shoot you constantly have to fight over instead of go under and your size advantage actually becomes a hindrance).

2. Again - big difference between initiating the offense and running the offense. Stark contrast between a draw and kick or hitting the open man...and creating, probing the defense, knowing how to penetrate and draw the defense and then finding the right passing angle. Maybe I'm just old school but I think PG is a trait that's in your blood well before most players reach the NBA. Look at the difference in 09-10 between Ronnie Price and Eric Maynor, and now between Earl Watson and Jamaal Tinsley. It's a little like a quarterback, PG's who run your team effectively have to be game managers as well, and there have been so many cases of teams trying to play big backcourts with excellent SG's and SF's running the point - and unless you're running the triangle the majority of the time it doesn't work because you lose that cohesiveness that a natural PG brings to the table.

3. Next year we only have Hayward and Burks under contract on the wing. We'll definitely add some bodies but there's more than enough minutes there for the two of them.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but just saying it's not like a video game where a SG can have a high rating in passing/ball-handling and thus play the point effectively. If it was that simple every team in the league would be playing their SG's and SF's at the point to gain an advantage. You see a few occassions where it happens but generally it's a major transition - especially for a 1st or 2nd year player.
 
1. I think people are underestimating the difference between successfully guarding SG/SF's and successfully guarding PG's.
Huge difference when you're focusing on preventing a player from scoring and when you're trying to prevent penetration without receiving help, in playing primarily side screen-roll and middle-screen-roll, in fighting through 1 ballscreen and fighting through constant screens (and if you're guarding a PG who can shoot you constantly have to fight over instead of go under and your size advantage actually becomes a hindrance).

2. Again - big difference between initiating the offense and running the offense. Stark contrast between a draw and kick or hitting the open man...and creating, probing the defense, knowing how to penetrate and draw the defense and then finding the right passing angle. Maybe I'm just old school but I think PG is a trait that's in your blood well before most players reach the NBA. Look at the difference in 09-10 between Ronnie Price and Eric Maynor, and now between Earl Watson and Jamaal Tinsley. It's a little like a quarterback, PG's who run your team effectively have to be game managers as well, and there have been so many cases of teams trying to play big backcourts with excellent SG's and SF's running the point - and unless you're running the triangle the majority of the time it doesn't work because you lose that cohesiveness that a natural PG brings to the table.

3. Next year we only have Hayward and Burks under contract on the wing. We'll definitely add some bodies but there's more than enough minutes there for the two of them.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but just saying it's not like a video game where a SG can have a high rating in passing/ball-handling and thus play the point effectively. If it was that simple every team in the league would be playing their SG's and SF's at the point to gain an advantage. You see a few occassions where it happens but generally it's a major transition - especially for a 1st or 2nd year player.

I agree with you almost completely.... and, yet, I see a team that lacks a future PG and should try some unconventional stuff when the matchups warrant it. That's all. I'd say I agree "completely", but you may have implied that Burks isn't up for the defensive assignment that you've sketched above.... that may be true, but I THINK he can do it, and I'd like to SEE him try.

I want a quarterback on this squad as badly as anybody. And, I have no idea where and when he is coming........ like Jesus.
 
I want a quarterback on this squad as badly as anybody. And, I have no idea where and when he is coming.
Agreed. If only we could combine Tinsley's vision, passing and savvyness and Watson's defense and toughness.
 
1. I think people are underestimating the difference between successfully guarding SG/SF's and successfully guarding PG's.
Huge difference when you're focusing on preventing a player from scoring and when you're trying to prevent penetration without receiving help, in playing primarily side screen-roll and middle-screen-roll, in fighting through 1 ballscreen and fighting through constant screens (and if you're guarding a PG who can shoot you constantly have to fight over instead of go under and your size advantage actually becomes a hindrance).

2. Again - big difference between initiating the offense and running the offense. Stark contrast between a draw and kick or hitting the open man...and creating, probing the defense, knowing how to penetrate and draw the defense and then finding the right passing angle. Maybe I'm just old school but I think PG is a trait that's in your blood well before most players reach the NBA. Look at the difference in 09-10 between Ronnie Price and Eric Maynor, and now between Earl Watson and Jamaal Tinsley. It's a little like a quarterback, PG's who run your team effectively have to be game managers as well, and there have been so many cases of teams trying to play big backcourts with excellent SG's and SF's running the point - and unless you're running the triangle the majority of the time it doesn't work because you lose that cohesiveness that a natural PG brings to the table.

3. Next year we only have Hayward and Burks under contract on the wing. We'll definitely add some bodies but there's more than enough minutes there for the two of them.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but just saying it's not like a video game where a SG can have a high rating in passing/ball-handling and thus play the point effectively. If it was that simple every team in the league would be playing their SG's and SF's at the point to gain an advantage. You see a few occassions where it happens but generally it's a major transition - especially for a 1st or 2nd year player.


Are you saying it can't be done?


Well I give you Hayward, the next Magic Johnson
 
Agreed. If only we could combine Tinsley's vision, passing and savvyness and Watson's defense and toughness.

And combine that with CJ's ability to get minutes and you've got yourself a player.
 
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