I <3 Thabo.
I dunno, that might be good information to have someday. Maybe you knew that already, but I repeated it just in case...
He's very good looking and his accent is really cool.
He won't score 25 points in a game in this entire career.
- Thread starter Hopper
- Start date
I <3 Thabo.
I dunno, that might be good information to have someday. Maybe you knew that already, but I repeated it just in case...
He's very good looking and his accent is really cool.
I remember someone saying Deron was phat. I think it might've been kiri. At any rate, I agreed.
chemdude1232
Active Member
I'm going to fall into the Hopper camp here (and, to a degree, One Brow) and claim that I recall people preferring Jarret Jack or Raymond Felton over Deron. Not that it matters, really; we turned out fine.
As to the more over-arching theme of the first post in this thread, I agree that the bulk of people are awfully negative with respect to "prospects" the Jazz get. Though, playing Devil's Advocate here, don't the bulk of prospects on most teams end up being busts?
A good example is the high schooler craze that occurred in the early part of the decade...how many high school players were drafted that ended up having a Darius Miles-type career vs. a Kevin Garnet/Kobe career?
As to the more over-arching theme of the first post in this thread, I agree that the bulk of people are awfully negative with respect to "prospects" the Jazz get. Though, playing Devil's Advocate here, don't the bulk of prospects on most teams end up being busts?
A good example is the high schooler craze that occurred in the early part of the decade...how many high school players were drafted that ended up having a Darius Miles-type career vs. a Kevin Garnet/Kobe career?
The only posters I specifically recall who were "anti-Deron" were Tuff Tiger (he was to Jarrett Jack what Kicky was to Deron) and skorol, who changed his opinion. And of course, Coach. Other than that, there was criticism, but I don't recall anyone making a claim of "He won't score 25 in a game", but I wouldn't be shocked at all if someone made that prediction.
I wouldn't be shocked, either. And the fact that Hopper is singling out one statement out of several hundred thousand is irrelevant, really, and is causing us to miss his larger point which is this:
- It is stupid to pretend that any player has a ceiling, as none of us is able to predict the future
- Logically, it would also be insane for any poster on this board to make any qualitative statements about any basketball player; for whom among us can give absolute assurance that the projections we give will be completely accurate?
- It would only follow that as humans, we would would be fools to think anything about anyone or anything. After all, we could be wrong.
- Hopper is a troll. Then again, maybe I shouldn't pass judgment -- he COULD change, and I would look like a fool for having ever doubted him.
- No. He couldn't.
- It is stupid to pretend that any player has a ceiling, as none of us is able to predict the future
- Logically, it would also be insane for any poster on this board to make any qualitative statements about any basketball player; for whom among us can give absolute assurance that the projections we give will be completely accurate?
- It would only follow that as humans, we would would be fools to think anything about anyone or anything. After all, we could be wrong.
- Hopper is a troll. Then again, maybe I shouldn't pass judgment -- he COULD change, and I would look like a fool for having ever doubted him.
- No. He couldn't.
jhenderson008
Member
-1 rep. You are an idiot.
Safetydan
Well-Known Member
Really? I thought it was hilarious... it just needed a
"Thanks for reading" at the end
jhenderson008
Member
Nah, it get's old fast. That's about all he posts. Ever.
On a serious note, the Jazz organization / fans have always been skeptical of who gets drafted - rightfully so because it shows we all care about this team. When John Stockton was drafted everyone "boo'd" him. I'm not saying the FO always gets it right, but let's face the facts. They get paid to put this team together and they did a good job with Deron. Hell, they maybe even lucked out a bit.
Nick, where did you and I go wrong? I mean, we used to be cyber buddies and even though we didn't sext or anything we used to talk a lot...now, not so much. Do you hate me now?
Richardito, I tried to IM you a few months back, but I guess they don't have or didn't allow internet access where you were.
Hopper
Banned
Yeah, Eric, it's hard for me, or any other poster round this here joint for that matter, to make any kinda post without a truckload of posters tryin to seize on what they perceive to be some "error" (spelin, or whatever) in the post and go on for pages about it. Then they claim that they are merely responding to "your point."
Fact is, they cant supress their immanent desire to express their hatred for the poster in question, their manifest superiority, intellectually, morally, and socially, or to pursue some other distorted, self-aggrandizin agenda.
It's all very transparent, but they actually think they're foolin someone (other than themselves, I mean). The more "objective" they try to appear, the more subjective they prove themselves to be.
Kicky personifies this, if ya ax me.
Mostly jealousy. But there are other reasons.
Hopper
Banned
Is all the work ya done done buildin up this here straw man to be took as a tacit admission that yo one of them who said Deron wouldn't NEVER score 25 points in a game, I wonder, eh, Bordy?
Could be. Then again, maybe not. Straw men being your specialty, maybe you could shed some light on the matter.
Hopper
Banned
My post wasn't even about Deron, per se, that was just an illustration. But Kicky's attempt to portray himself as a walkin encyclopedia who has heard, and memorized, every post ever made on this board, predominates. If he doesn't "remember" it, then it didn't happen and, by resort to such pretense, he thinks he has made a case that I am a liar. His "doubts" are tantamount to knowledge, for him. HE inserts himself as the main topic under discussion, and probably actually thinks that is what the entire thread is about.
Addendum for Kicky: Before you hastily decides that I have knowingly and deliberately violated your ad hoc school marm "rules" by quotin myself, and gimme yet another infraction for "deliberately disrupting the board with "bizzare" posting practices" (thereby effectuating the permanent ban which you have said you want), you can consider that I thought I hit the "edit" button when I made this post, but apparently mistakenly hit "reply."
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and ya know, ya might wanna use a magnifyin' glass when you're doing that
ya know, just to see what might happen
just be sure the light is good and bright
;-)
Then why make the thread with that title and specific "debunked" claims?
It's possible, but the threads at that point in time were largely about "how many games in a row do we have to win to get to .500" (I know, but seriously there were a lot of these), keeping track of our lottery odds and likely positions, threads complaining about injuries, game threads, etc.
Also, until the lottery happened people weren't really entrenched on either side of a number of debates because we didn't know where we might draft and all the draft websites weren't really gearing up. Plus, games were still on. If anything the March period was when people started coming around on Williams because it was tournament time and he was fantastic during that period.
Sure. But I think he's constructing strawmen to make his point. Surely you would agree that argumentative tactic is troublesome.
I have already acknowledged, repeatedly, that my recollection is likely imperfect. But Hopper is posting specific claims in an effort to say "look how dumb these statements were." I'd like to know who actually made those statements because I don't recall them. I have even supplied specific people who might have said some of his statements and why. Hopper, on the other hand, is claiming his recollection is perfect and all these things were actually said.
We've discussed Tuff Tiger's love for Jack already. To my recollection there wasn't a big groundswell of support for Felton. A few posters here and there but no one who was so adamant about it that their name sticks out to me. The reason that old timers remember names associated with Jack (Tuff Tiger) and Deron (me) is because the statements were continuous and strong. If the statements related to Deron never being able to hit certain benchmarks existed and were so strongly worded I'm surprised no one can remember who said them and no one but Hopper even remembers that they specifically were said. There are, to put it kindly, more than a handful of members who are on the board only because they have a particular interest in Deron. Surely someone else would remember.
One quibble re: Paul. The Jazz originally got the sixth pick in the lottery. Until the trade occurred to get us the third pick just a couple days prior to the draft Paul wasn't realistically in the picture and didn't get a lot of discussion in the comparative sense on the board other than "we should trade up" style threads. That heated up in the last couple days but there weren't long repeated slogs through that territory pre-draft the way there was between Deron and Jack.
Some of this is that the benchmarks aint cites were met or nearly met so early. Deron nearly got to 25 in the first month. He also averaged 4.9 apg in his first month in the league. I'm having difficulty believing that people were really saing he had no chance of improving even 2-5% or even on having a "fluke" game or couple of months.
Like I said, I remember the current of the tide being far more along the lines of "why isn't Sloan playing him more" when Deron's minutes declined.
