Here is an article I found interesting on the whole bell and mathews issue.
- Thread starter gregbroncs
- Start date
Thanks interesting read.
Plus there was this little gem on the side bar. Apparently Brewer is taking the conversion to being a bull pretty seriously with the horns and mooing.
Plus there was this little gem on the side bar. Apparently Brewer is taking the conversion to being a bull pretty seriously with the horns and mooing.
prodigal punk
Member
Thanks interesting read.
Plus there was this little gem on the side bar. Apparently Brewer is taking the conversion to being a bull pretty seriously with the horns and mooing.
Hahaha. That's going to be someone's avatar in no time.
+1 avatar discovery
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
I think that is kind of dumb. You are worth what someone is willing to pay you. Just because EVERYONE isn't willing to pay you that much doesn't change that. Matthews could have got 3y/10M from pretty much anyone. Considering what kind of contracts were handed out I don't think Matthews deal was super ridiculous, maybe a tad higher than market for a guy with one year pro experience, but not a ton. Look at what these guys got Outlaw(7M), Korver(5M), Childress (7M).
DWill_Gr8tness
Member
Good for Wes for making a ton a money. It sucks that he is gone, but he will be much richer in Portland. Unfortunately for him I just don't see him playing as much or developing as much as he would of in Utah. That said I can't feel that sorry for a guy who just got a huge deal with over 9+ Million in his pocket upfront.
The point of his article had a lot to do with the idea that the pay is not what they are worth. Hence the "lose-lose" idea. If you think Portland will look back on his contract and say "wow that was a good deal" THEN its worth it. Just like we say with AK right now - That is a great deal for $17M
Wes is one that I will be sad for him if this ruins his playing (time, system) and will have a hard time rooting against him, but ultimately I'm a Jazz fan first and ultimately it's hard to feel too sorry for a guy getting $32M to play hoop...
calijazz
Winner of the 2011 Jazzfanz mock draft contest
It doesn't mean those guys aren't overpaid either (Outlaw, Childress especially). Teams are supposed to use good judgment and spend their money wisely, regardless of the market. Overpaying a player just because other teams are doing it isn't a legitimate reason. There are always bargains or decent values out there, they just need to exercise patience (even if that means saving money for future off-seasons).
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
So if somebody is willing to pay 30,000 for a 20 year old pinto it must be worth that. Right? That's basically your point about the players here. Just because somebody is willing to overpay for something does not mean that it is automatically worth what they paid.
Hopper
Banned
In this case, even goin to the lengths of signin a contract with a player doesn't prove you're actually "willing to pay" him that much. The general consensus in the Portland press seemed to be that Utah would certainly match. What the Jazz DID get for 3yr/10M was Bell. Think about it, eh?
LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
"Everything is Worth What a Purchaser Will Pay For It"
After reading PDX forums on the Matthews issue, the one argument I keep reading over and over again is that the deal is good for the Blazers because once the first year is over, he can be easily traded. This is how they are convincing themselves this signing was worth it. Not that he's going to be an instant and valuable contributor, but more that he is somehow, at least, an asset that can be used to get a better player.
I hate this because we would've actually used and valued Wesley's contribution to our team. Good for him getting paid and all......but what a waste.
I hate this because we would've actually used and valued Wesley's contribution to our team. Good for him getting paid and all......but what a waste.
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homeytennis
Well-Known Member
Wes shouldn't have flapped his gums. Now he's a pariah to the front office unless he mends some fences but he's rich so he doesn't care.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
But once they have paid for it, if nobody else will then it's no longer worth that.
chawx
Active Member
huh? no it wont...that's a dumb avatar..... haha
It seems like a lot of people are repeating this sentiment as if it's some kind of philosophical revolution. It is, however, completely missing the point.
Value is not an absolute. It is a subjective measurement based on certain criteria for "usefulness" compared to other similar products. What you're talking about is called price. If an item is deemed valuable, it typically means that you get more out of it than the effort required to fulfill the cost. So a top quality HDTV selling for $800 dollars would be of great value, while a lesser quality HDTV at $2000 would be seen as overpriced, regardless of the ability of some to cover the price.
Matthews was overpaid partly as a tactical move to undermine the Jazz. It is not his true value, nor is it equal to his expected contributions (he's not twice as useful as Bell, for an example, and the Jazz offer is the highest Raja could find).
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Thanks interesting read.
Plus there was this little gem on the side bar. Apparently Brewer is taking the conversion to being a bull pretty seriously with the horns and mooing.
Well, if no one else does, I will.
After all, I did have a tombstone with "Brewer RIP" as my avatar after the trade last season.
Edit: Awww, chawx beat my to it.
Maybe I'll have to do something Jefferson-related.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Well, the cap hit will still be the same for any team, but the actual cash flow will be less due to the signing bonus. Just like how Millsap counts $8M against the cap, but the Millers only have to pay him $6M or so in actual cash.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Doubt that, the cap hit still has 20% of the total bonus added on every year. To make him tradeable his stats would need to exceed what they were here. For that to happen he needs, besides luck, minutes. He isn't going to get minutes backing up Roy. They could go really small and put Roy at SF but small ball rarely works in this league.
Worth
You are using the definition of "worth" to be "market value", others may think of worth as "the quality that makes something valuable" The problem with the "market value" definition, is that NBA players are not a part of a liquid trading market, it is all long-term contracts, so that as the value deviates from the contract price, the buyers have no way to reset the price of the contract to the new perceived worth. The perceived value by a team at the time of contract signing may be different from the actualized value.
So I don't think many people would say that AK is still worth his $86m contract, Marbury $76m, Kmart $91m, Diop $34m, Dampier $73m, Zach Randolph $84m, etc.
You are using the definition of "worth" to be "market value", others may think of worth as "the quality that makes something valuable" The problem with the "market value" definition, is that NBA players are not a part of a liquid trading market, it is all long-term contracts, so that as the value deviates from the contract price, the buyers have no way to reset the price of the contract to the new perceived worth. The perceived value by a team at the time of contract signing may be different from the actualized value.
So I don't think many people would say that AK is still worth his $86m contract, Marbury $76m, Kmart $91m, Diop $34m, Dampier $73m, Zach Randolph $84m, etc.