Hero Ball

[Isaiah 1:13]

Can't stop thinking about that final 20 seconds of the Milwaukee game. Mitchell has Connoughton on him and Bogey has Bledsoe on him and yet Mitchell looks him off. At this point Bogey sets a screen for him and tails out for the corner three kick-out option. Mitchell proceeds to drive the lane and Lopez collapses for the easy block. The term we use around here is hero ball, but I'm not sure that's accurate as Snyder is the one with the playbook and Iso Mitchell down the stretch in close games has become the norm. Mitchell has been groomed for this role, he is the designated shot taker in close games, unless a timeout has been called and he becomes the decoy on the inbounds (first Milwaukee game). We are too predictable in these games where Mitchell exclusively goes Iso for the last shot IMO.

Watching a Clippers game the other day and Doc was asked who gets the ball at the end of close games - Kawhi, PG or LouWill, and Doc goes, "it depends entirely on match-ups". Why aren't we employing that approach? Bogey had a mismatch with Bledsoe and could have had a nice little pull-up shooting over the top or the shorter man. I mean I love DM, he does so many things well, but is he the kind of scorer that should be regularly closing out games for us in iso mode? I know on some nights, he'll have the quickness advantage, but he'll almost never have the height advantage. We need more options in these situations IMO, and of course Bogey who's done it before with Indy needs to be part of that. I know it's anathema right now to consider Conley for this, but he's done it before as well and he will improve (he's also the best feed man for Gobert). I also like the "6th man" Iso option for a guy like Mudiay similar to LouWill or Vinnie Johnson (microwave) back in the day.

 

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

The days of Steve Kerr taking the big shot rather than Jordan are gone.

Why does a poor team like the Knicks constantly lose close games? Because we don't have the hero ball player. The other team has the hero ball player. And they use them to play hero ball because those players can be heroic.

Teams rely on their best player. Why does that surprise you? Sometimes they miss the shot, sometimes they don't. That's sports.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Can't stop thinking about that final 20 seconds of the Milwaukee game. Mitchell has Connoughton on him and Bogey has Bledsoe on him and yet Mitchell looks him off. At this point Bogey sets a screen for him and tails out for the corner three kick-out option. Mitchell proceeds to drive the lane and Lopez collapses for the easy block. The term we use around here is hero ball, but I'm not sure that's accurate as Snyder is the one with the playbook and Iso Mitchell down the stretch in close games has become the norm. Mitchell has been groomed for this role, he is the designated shot taker in close games, unless a timeout has been called and he becomes the decoy on the inbounds (first Milwaukee game). We are too predictable in these games where Mitchell exclusively goes Iso for the last shot IMO.

Watching a Clippers game the other day and Doc was asked who gets the ball at the end of close games - Kawhi, PG or LouWill, and Doc goes, "it depends entirely on match-ups". Why aren't we employing that approach? Bogey had a mismatch with Bledsoe and could have had a nice little pull-up shooting over the top or the shorter man. I mean I love DM, he does so many things well, but is he the kind of scorer that should be regularly closing out games for us in iso mode? I know on some nights, he'll have the quickness advantage, but he'll almost never have the height advantage. We need more options in these situations IMO, and of course Bogey who's done it before with Indy needs to be part of that. I know it's anathema right now to consider Conley for this, but he's done it before as well and he will improve (he's also the best feed man for Gobert). I also like the "6th man" Iso option for a guy like Mudiay similar to LouWill or Vinnie Johnson (microwave) back in the day.

I mean he got to the rim and just got it blocked... should have passed to the corner for the open shot but the approach created a better opportunity than most end of game situations.

I think there was some miscommunication going on and the guys looked a little confused... at that point I thought Quin should call a timeout and get something set... I mean we got a great look on an out of bounds play against this very team and hit a game winner...

there was also a chance a drive like that brought Lopez up and if DM can get it over his fingertips someone would have an opportunity to rebound and tip in... like the Harrison Barnes play earlier in the year.

Lopez made a great play... DM needs to learn to kick out more... maybe this will be the play that reinforces it.

 

[Dali]

The only player that was really open was Jeff Green in the corner. Would a pass out to the corner to Jeff for the open 3 have been better? In hindsight yes.

I would like to see Bogey have more of the responsibility in those tight games, and to trust him to make a play.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

The days of Steve Kerr taking the big shot rather than Jordan are gone.

Why does a poor team like the Knicks constantly lose close games? Because we don't have the hero ball player. The other team has the hero ball player. And they use them to play hero ball because those players can be heroic.

Teams rely on their best player. Why does that surprise you? Sometimes they miss the shot, sometimes they don't. That's sports.

So then I guess by your logic, Doc Rivers is wrong to go with whoever has the best match-up. I understand your way of thinking for last year's team, but not this year's.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

The only player that was really open was Jeff Green in the corner. Would a pass out to the corner to Jeff for the open 3 have been better? In hindsight yes.

I would like to see Bogey have more of the responsibility in those tight games, and to trust him to make a play.

My thinking was that Mitchell could have easily gotten him the ball before the screen and the roll out so he could exploit the Bledsoe match-up. But yeah, I definitely agree with your assessment to get Bogey more involved in that situation.

 

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

So then I guess by your logic, Doc Rivers is wrong to go with whoever has the best match-up. I understand your way of thinking for last year's team, but not this year's.

No, Doc is right, but it doesn't work out that way. It seems in key moments the ball does stick in the hands of the hero. Hell, in the final seconds Reggie Miller ain't going to give up the ball to somebody else even if that other player was guarded by little Tyrion from GAME OF THRONES.

 

[Dali]

My thinking was that Mitchell could have easily gotten him the ball before the screen and the roll out so he could exploit the Bledsoe match-up.

Ah I understand now. That goes in line with trusting Bogey to make a play in those dying seconds, on occasion. I agree then.

 

[jumpin bean]

Sign John Stockton for league minimum. He says he can still play 20 minutes

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

No, Doc is right, but it doesn't work out that way. It seems in key moments the ball does stick in the hands of the hero. Hell, in the final seconds Reggie Miller ain't going to give up the ball to somebody else even if that other player was guarded by little Tyrion from GAME OF THRONES.

I see what you're saying but then coach needs to call a T.O. to call somebody's number or it's just understood that we continue with the hot hand or whoever the coach has called for ahead of time.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

Sign John Stockton for league minimum. He says he can still play 20 minutes

Just what we need, another six foot nothing, but this one couldn't jump even when he was in his prime.
Love Stock by the way - all time steals and assists leader.

 

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

I see what you're saying but then coach needs to call a T.O. to call somebody's number or it's just understood that we continue with the hot hand or whoever the coach has called for ahead of time.

Walt Clyde Frazier is our announcer and he always talks old school about how to handle hero ball situations. Keep it simple -- the hot hand. Make plays for, look for the hot hand. The guy was doing it all game under pressure, why look elsewhere for the final shot?

Odd thing about those final hero ball shots is everybody knows the guy is going to get the ball...yet, they still can make the play and sink the shot. Your best player (or super hot hand for that night) can make those shots. Let them take it. Come on, Kawhi's four bouncer on the rim to win that playoff series...you knew, everybody knew, that was the guy who had to take the shot. It went in.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

Walt Clyde Frazier is our announcer and he always talks old school about how to handle hero ball situations. Keep it simple -- the hot hand. Make plays for, look for the hot hand. The guy was doing it all game under pressure, why look elsewhere for the final shot?

Odd thing about those final hero ball shots is everybody knows the guy is going to get the ball...yet, they still can make the play and sink the shot. Your best player (or super hot hand for that night) can make those shots. Let them take it. Come on, Kawhi's four bouncer on the rim to win that playoff series...you knew, everybody knew, that was the guy who had to take the shot. It went in.

I agree. The problem is that we go Iso Mitchell even when he isn't the hot hand. It's just too predictable as he very seldom considers the assist, even to Rudy in those situations.

 

[Dali]

We've definitely gone to Mitchell with a non-advantageous result on some occasions, and whilst he was definitely not the hot hand at the time.

 

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

I agree. The problem is that we go Iso Mitchell even when he isn't the hot hand. It's just too predictable as he very seldom considers the assist, even to Rudy in those situations.

You do have a fantastic second option - Gobert down low. Draw up plays for Mitchell with a look to Rudy. Hey, if Mitchell doesn't pass...what can you do? Basketball is thee game of ego.

But you can't knock going with Mitchell for the final shot. I don't understand why that would bother you. The guy is your best player. Wouldn't you rather lose the game with your best player taking the shot than with, say, Mudiay taking the final shot?

 

[test_name_please_ignore]

The only player that was really open was Jeff Green[/B] in the corner. Would a pass out to the corner to Jeff for the open 3 have been better? In hindsight yes.

I would like to see Bogey have more of the responsibility in those tight games, and to trust him to make a play.

I think Royce would disagree.

 

[Dali]

You do have a fantastic second option - Gobert down low. Draw up plays for Mitchell with a look to Rudy. Hey, if Mitchell doesn't pass...what can you do? Basketball is thee game of ego.

But you can't knock going with Mitchell for the final shot. I don't understand why that would bother you. The guy is your best player. Wouldn't you rather lose the game with your best player taking the shot than with, say, Mudiay taking the final shot?

We do have a great second option, but it's not Rudy. You need your second option to be able to score from anywhere. Bogey's waving hi.

 

[test_name_please_ignore]

We have a great closer as Bogey showed in the last Milwaukee game, and he had a small guy guarding him. Hero ball is right.

 

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

Hey, folks, just watch this forty second clip. It tells everything one needs to know about drawing up a play for the final shot in a basketball game.

 

[Dali]

I think Royce would disagree.

You have to take into account the ball travelling to the player. Neither Bogey nor Royce would have had a truly open shot. The respective defenders on those two would have been there in time.

Jeff green is wide open at the time of paint penetration. Giannis with his strides would have made pretty good ground, but it' still at least a semi-wide open shot.

If Mitchell wanted to pass to Royce for example, it could not have been a straight line pass. It would have needed to be a lob over the top, meaning ball travels slower.

EDIT: And to add, there's a clear passing lane to Jeff in the corner, a fast paced pass would have been possible.

EDIT x2: Actually you're right, Royce is open. It would have to take clear knowledge from Donovan that he is open, as he is behind him.