Hill and Hayward: The Package Deal

[7StraightIsGreat]

It's pretty clear after the exit interviews that Hill and Hayward are most likely a package deal as far as a return to Utah is concerned. While I would be fine with signing Hill to a 2-year deal, I don't see any scenario in which he signs for less than 4 years. IMO, you don't win championships signing a very good, but not great player to $25-30 million/year deal in which he'll be 35 before you get out from under it. That being said, if Gordon wants Hill in Utah, the Jazz have to do whatever it takes to retain him. It's more than just the prospect of hitting reset on the rebuild again. Losing Hayward to a bigger market after all of the time, effort, and development it has taken to get to this point would just be a monumental let down for a franchise that needs to retain it's homegrown talent now more than ever.

So while I suppose there's a chance Dennis Lindsey can sell Hayward into signing with a promise of a big name acquisition that's not named Hill, I'm starting to make my peace with the fact that we'll be watching a "Big 3" of Hayward-Gobert-Hill for the next 4-5 years. My concern is that even if these moves are absolutely necessary, Utah is committing itself to 4-seed purgatory for the next 5 years. We all know for certain that a roster built around those 3 cannot topple the Warriors as they are currently constituted. My worry is that even if/when GS loses 1 of their Big 4, Utah still isn't good enough to get past them. I also have my doubts about how we will fare against the Kawhi led Spurs and Harden led Rockets as those teams move towards the future.

Assuming that this is our "Big 3" going forward, what exactly is our ceiling? If this is how it plays out, now more than ever Lindsay needs to get aggressive with the other players we have on this roster. It will be time to push the envelope and see what varying combinations of Favors, Hood, Burks, Exum, and draft picks can get us. I'm trying to stay positive but I have this nagging feeling that Utah is in the familiar position of locking itself into being good, but not great, with little wiggle room to change anything.

 

[Stoked]

If you can get more consistent 3 point shooting around that, like a stretch 4, than that could be an elite level ceiling.

Problem for everyone is the GSW juggernaut.

Super teams just kill the competitive balance.

 

[Boris]

It's pretty clear after the exit interviews that Hill and Hayward are most likely a package deal as far as a return to Utah is concerned. While I would be fine with signing Hill to a 2-year deal, I don't see any scenario in which he signs for less than 4 years. IMO, you don't win championships signing a very good, but not great player to $25-30 million/year deal in which he'll be 35 before you get out from under it. That being said, if Gordon wants Hill in Utah, the Jazz have to do whatever it takes to retain him. It's more than just the prospect of hitting reset on the rebuild again. Losing Hayward to a bigger market after all of the time, effort, and development it has taken to get to this point would just be a monumental let down for a franchise that needs to retain it's homegrown talent now more than ever.

So while I suppose there's a chance Dennis Lindsey can sell Hayward into signing with a promise of a big name acquisition that's not named Hill, I'm starting to make my peace with the fact that we'll be watching a "Big 3" of Hayward-Gobert-Hill for the next 4-5 years. My concern is that even if these moves are absolutely necessary, Utah is committing itself to 4-seed purgatory for the next 5 years. We all know for certain that a roster built around those 3 cannot topple the Warriors as they are currently constituted. My worry is that even if/when GS loses 1 of their Big 4, Utah still isn't good enough to get past them. I also have my doubts about how we will fare against the Kawhi led Spurs and Harden led Rockets as those teams move towards the future.

Assuming that this is our "Big 3" going forward, what exactly is our ceiling? If this is how it plays out, now more than ever Lindsay needs to get aggressive with the other players we have on this roster. It will be time to push the envelope and see what varying combinations of Favors, Hood, Burks, Exum, and draft picks can get us. I'm trying to stay positive but I have this nagging feeling that Utah is in the familiar position of locking itself into being good, but not great, with little wiggle room to change anything.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Favors, Burks, Exum an like ten billion darft picks for Russell Westbrook. Instant contenders.

"This trade is successful" -ESPN Trade machine

 

[karl malone]

This decision will undoubtedly alter the course of this franchise for many years. If they are in fact a package deal & Hill won't budge on his contractual demands, I think I would have to lean towards hitting the reset button. As demoralizing as that would be, I'd much rather gamble on building around Gobert than almost certainly locking ourselves into a second-tier team for multiple years.

Preferably Hayward re-signs & we are able to replace Hill with a higher caliber player, but it's not as if Utah is without young talent/assets. I also expect a slight improvement in FA appeal due to our national exposure, young superstar in Gobert, team culture, Ingles/JJ's success, etc.

Rebuilding again after finally beginning to reap the benefits of our previous (very slow) rebuild would be a very tough pill to swallow but I'd be extremely disappointed if the FO decided to settle for a double (with the potential to turn into a hustle triple) instead of swinging for the fences. I'd much rather see this team go down swinging opposed to settling for silver.

 

[David Stern]

We've gotten rid of Hayward's friends before and he was fine. He'll live if we don't sign Hill.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We've gotten rid of Hayward's friends before and he was fine. He'll live if we don't sign Hill.

Because his friend was barely a NBA player.....

 

[candrew]

We've gotten rid of Hayward's friends before and he was fine. He'll live if we don't sign Hill.

I think we'll all know Hayward's fate fairly quickly. The offers will become readily apparent by day 1 or 2 and my read is he's not the egomaniac type that would look to draw out this process.

Hill on the other hand is probably 4 or 5 on the wish list for PG's. He might not have his signature on a contract for a few weeks.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

I think I could talk myself into the idea that Hill's bad performances were mostly because of legitimate injuries that he was trying to play through. He is still a great fit for this system, and was the 3rd best player most of the year when healthy.

He would also be an ideal guy to play along with Exum should he develop in future seasons. He's big enough to interchange with Exum at the 2, and he is a great spot up 3 point shooter. "Positionless basketball" is supposedly how Quin likes to operate. I really don't want to pay a max contract or anything close to that to him. My favorite offseason option is to somehow get a star player at another position and get a heavily discounted Dwill to "come home" and mentor/back up Exum (who will make tons of progress and be a borderline star by the end of next season in my fantasy).

But if the team can't swing a trade to get somebody like Butler, Porzingis, PG or somebody of that caliber (I realize that these options range from unlikely to basically impossible) then I might be fine bringing back Hill at a 20 Mil+/yr salary depending on the status of his toe. In a worst case scenario you could always trade him in the future, or pay the tax for a season if you need to retain another young player.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's pretty clear after the exit interviews that Hill and Hayward are most likely a package deal as far as a return to Utah is concerned. While I would be fine with signing Hill to a 2-year deal, I don't see any scenario in which he signs for less than 4 years. IMO, you don't win championships signing a very good, but not great player to $25-30 million/year deal in which he'll be 35 before you get out from under it. That being said, if Gordon wants Hill in Utah, the Jazz have to do whatever it takes to retain him. It's more than just the prospect of hitting reset on the rebuild again. Losing Hayward to a bigger market after all of the time, effort, and development it has taken to get to this point would just be a monumental let down for a franchise that needs to retain it's homegrown talent now more than ever.

So while I suppose there's a chance Dennis Lindsey can sell Hayward into signing with a promise of a big name acquisition that's not named Hill, I'm starting to make my peace with the fact that we'll be watching a "Big 3" of Hayward-Gobert-Hill for the next 4-5 years. My concern is that even if these moves are absolutely necessary, Utah is committing itself to 4-seed purgatory for the next 5 years. We all know for certain that a roster built around those 3 cannot topple the Warriors as they are currently constituted. My worry is that even if/when GS loses 1 of their Big 4, Utah still isn't good enough to get past them. I also have my doubts about how we will fare against the Kawhi led Spurs and Harden led Rockets as those teams move towards the future.

Assuming that this is our "Big 3" going forward, what exactly is our ceiling? If this is how it plays out, now more than ever Lindsay needs to get aggressive with the other players we have on this roster. It will be time to push the envelope and see what varying combinations of Favors, Hood, Burks, Exum, and draft picks can get us. I'm trying to stay positive but I have this nagging feeling that Utah is in the familiar position of locking itself into being good, but not great, with little wiggle room to change anything.

I might get flamed for saying this but if you told me we would win over 50 games each of the next 5 years and be in "4th seed purgatory" then I would be very happy.

That means we would be winning lots and lots of games, have all star players, maybe a coach the year award, defensive player of the year, I figure some more first round playoff series wins, and likely an appearance or 2 in the western conference finals.

And you never know, maybe we get lucky in the playoffs and a powerhouse or two suffers some injuries. Maybe one of our many first round picks ends up being the next kahwi leonard. Maybe a big time free agent sees how close the jazz are a championship and wants to come to the jazz.

Sign me up for 4th seed purgatory please.

I hope we re-sign all of our free agents.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We've gotten rid of Hayward's friends before and he was fine. He'll live if we don't sign Hill.

What? Every other year he wasn't an unrestricted free agent you dunce.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I might get flamed for saying this but if you told me we would win over 50 games each of the next 5 years and be in "4th seed purgatory" then I would be very happy.

That means we would be winning lots and lots of games, have all star players, maybe a coach the year award, defensive player of the year, I figure some more first round playoff series wins, and likely an appearance or 2 in the western conference finals.

And you never know, maybe we get lucky in the playoffs and a powerhouse or two suffers some injuries. Maybe one of our many first round picks ends up being the next kahwi leonard. Maybe a big time free agent sees how close the jazz are a championship and wants to come to the jazz.

Sign me up for 4th seed purgatory please.

I hope we re-sign all of our free agents.

Meh.

As a fan base, we've got no shortage of memories of being really good, but not quite good enough. I don't think doing that again is really gonna be all that interesting. Utah's in a very unique position. They have the most dominant rim protector in the league in Gobert and IMO a top 15 all-around player in Hayward (assuming he resigns of course). Utah has to find a way to surround those 2 with a team that can legitimately contend for a championship or it has to be considered a failure. To be quite honest, nothing scares me more than being stuck at division titles and Conference runner-up status. Hell, I'd rather rebuild again. At least when you're rebuilding, there's hope that it can actually turn in to something big.

 

[Stoked]

I might get flamed for saying this but if you told me we would win over 50 games each of the next 5 years and be in "4th seed purgatory" then I would be very happy.

That means we would be winning lots and lots of games, have all star players, maybe a coach the year award, defensive player of the year, I figure some more first round playoff series wins, and likely an appearance or 2 in the western conference finals.

And you never know, maybe we get lucky in the playoffs and a powerhouse or two suffers some injuries. Maybe one of our many first round picks ends up being the next kahwi leonard. Maybe a big time free agent sees how close the jazz are a championship and wants to come to the jazz.

Sign me up for 4th seed purgatory please.

I hope we re-sign all of our free agents.

I'm up for continually being a team that is banging on the door trying to take that last step. But if they just want to be the 4th seed with no aspirations of higher than I say no thanks.

 

[SCS]

You detailed my worst fear. If we re-sign Hill to 25-30 million over 4-5 years we stand no chance of winning a championship with Hayward/Gobert. Unless we hit another miracle of a draft pick like we did with Gobert. The playoff ending we got this year is what we'll get every year. We CAN'T give Hill that kind of money/years to watch him decline as he ages and play 40-50 games a year.

 

[fishonjazz]

The playoff ending we got this year is what we'll get every year.

I disagree.
We won 51 games with the worst health luck possible and 5 rotation guys playing as bad as they probably will for their whole career.
Give me health and a bit of improvement from burks, favors, hood, lyles, and X (almost guaranteed to happen) and I figure we get a top 3 seed and avoid the warriors until later in the playoffs.

Not to mention improvement from hayward, gobert and quin plus better chemistry and better knowledge of the system from the new guys (hill and JJ)
Plus a couple first round picks.

Same roster next year doesn't equal same result as this year.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If signing Jeremy Evans to a deal would keep Hayward on, I'd totally do it.

 

[franklin]

I'm up for continually being a team that is banging on the door trying to take that last step. But if they just want to be the 4th seed with no aspirations of higher than I say no thanks.

Yeah, it's kinda weird this culture would root for failure. I guess the dwindling Jazz fan base was so tired of the rebuild (after being spoiled) that mediocrity is okay. That's what I've heard as general consensus here anyway.

 

[franklin]

I disagree.
We won 51 games with the worst health luck possible and 5 rotation guys playing as bad as they probably will for their whole career.
Give me health and a bit of improvement from burks, favors, hood, lyles, and X (almost guaranteed to happen) and I figure we get a top 3 seed and avoid the warriors until later in the playoffs.

Not to mention improvement from hayward, gobert and quin plus better chemistry and better knowledge of the system from the new guys (hill and JJ)
Plus a couple first round picks.

Same roster next year doesn't equal same result as this year.

Blake Griffin.

 

[fishonjazz]

Blake Griffin.

Rudy gobert, Gordon hayward, Derrick favors, george hill, Alec burks.

Oh and iirc we beat them when they had Blake Griffin playing and gobert was out.

 

[ncoloradojazz]

No one is going to give a 35 year old who is not a star a 4 year contract

It's pretty clear after the exit interviews that Hill and Hayward are most likely a package deal as far as a return to Utah is concerned. While I would be fine with signing Hill to a 2-year deal, I don't see any scenario in which he signs for less than 4 years. IMO, you don't win championships signing a very good, but not great player to $25-30 million/year deal in which he'll be 35 before you get out from under it. That being said, if Gordon wants Hill in Utah, the Jazz have to do whatever it takes to retain him. It's more than just the prospect of hitting reset on the rebuild again. Losing Hayward to a bigger market after all of the time, effort, and development it has taken to get to this point would just be a monumental let down for a franchise that needs to retain it's homegrown talent now more than ever.

So while I suppose there's a chance Dennis Lindsey can sell Hayward into signing with a promise of a big name acquisition that's not named Hill, I'm starting to make my peace with the fact that we'll be watching a "Big 3" of Hayward-Gobert-Hill for the next 4-5 years. My concern is that even if these moves are absolutely necessary, Utah is committing itself to 4-seed purgatory for the next 5 years. We all know for certain that a roster built around those 3 cannot topple the Warriors as they are currently constituted. My worry is that even if/when GS loses 1 of their Big 4, Utah still isn't good enough to get past them. I also have my doubts about how we will fare against the Kawhi led Spurs and Harden led Rockets as those teams move towards the future.

Assuming that this is our "Big 3" going forward, what exactly is our ceiling? If this is how it plays out, now more than ever Lindsay needs to get aggressive with the other players we have on this roster. It will be time to push the envelope and see what varying combinations of Favors, Hood, Burks, Exum, and draft picks can get us. I'm trying to stay positive but I have this nagging feeling that Utah is in the familiar position of locking itself into being good, but not great, with little wiggle room to change anything.

 

[SCS]

I disagree.
We won 51 games with the worst health luck possible and 5 rotation guys playing as bad as they probably will for their whole career.
Give me health and a bit of improvement from burks, favors, hood, lyles, and X (almost guaranteed to happen) and I figure we get a top 3 seed and avoid the warriors until later in the playoffs.

Not to mention improvement from hayward, gobert and quin plus better chemistry and better knowledge of the system from the new guys (hill and JJ)
Plus a couple first round picks.

Same roster next year doesn't equal same result as this year.

So we'll get eliminated in the western conference finals instead of western conference semifinals. Same result to me. My goal is championships not a few western conference finals appearances. I understand we were hurt this year, but we were last year too. At some point it becomes an excuse. Can we really count on being healthy next year when this group has never been healthy? I don't think so. Can we really win a championship if they are? I still think we're a third star away.