Hill and Hayward: The Package Deal

[BabyPeterzz]

Hill fit perfect when healthyish. We spent a lottery pick on him already. Hayward loves him.

Choice obv, lest i remind you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJRiEf9eTvY

 

[franklin]

Rudy gobert, Gordon hayward, Derrick favors, george hill, Alec burks.

Oh and iirc we beat them when they had Blake Griffin playing and gobert was out.

Fair point and obvious retort and a given. I just saw the writing on the wall after game 2. Blake was destroying us after Doc Rivers' game one blunder. I would be shocked if these guys got out of round one. You can insert the obvious Rudy comment if you'd like, as I saw a ton of offensive and defensive plays that would not have been in the Clippers favor had Rudy been in, but without him they were dominating so badly that the Jazz had no chance before Blake went down. The games were close even after he went down.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Fair point and obvious retort and a given. I just saw the writing on the wall after game 2. Blake was destroying us after Doc Rivers' game one blunder. I would be shocked if these guys got out of round one. You can insert the obvious Rudy comment if you'd like, as I saw a ton of offensive and defensive plays that would not have been in the Clippers favor had Rudy been in, but without him they were dominating so badly that the Jazz had no chance before Blake went down. The games were close even after he went down.

Truth. Joe Johnson saved our asses that series.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Fair point and obvious retort and a given. I just saw the writing on the wall after game 2. Blake was destroying us after Doc Rivers' game one blunder. I would be shocked if these guys got out of round one. You can insert the obvious Rudy comment if you'd like, as I saw a ton of offensive and defensive plays that would not have been in the Clippers favor had Rudy been in, but without him they were dominating so badly that the Jazz had no chance before Blake went down. The games were close even after he went down.

Rudy and Griffin played the same amount of minutes in the playoffs. The big difference is that LAC got a healthy Blake for those minutes and we had a hobbled Gobert. If we had a healthy Gobert for the whole series I am not sure that series goes any where close to game 7 with us easily winning. It is hard to know for sure. But game 2 was close and if we had Gobert in that game I think we win. Same could be said of game 3. Griffin dominated us the games he played until he hurt his team in the 4th quarter. It could be argued we would have won the game he went down in. He hurt his team in the games he was healthy in the 4th for, why would that trend not continue? I know you want to look for the negative but we won that series much much more hobbled and injured than the Clippers. We had Hill, Hood, Favors, Gobert, Neto and Burks all dealing with injuries to some extent that series. They had Griffin and Rivers dealing with stuff.

 

[Douchebag K]

So we'll get eliminated in the western conference finals instead of western conference semifinals. Same result to me. My goal is championships not a few western conference finals appearances. I understand we were hurt this year, but we were last year too. At some point it becomes an excuse. Can we really count on being healthy next year when this group has never been healthy? I don't think so. Can we really win a championship if they are? I still think we're a third star away.

do you have any idea of the amount of luck it takes to win a championship ? Unless you have one of the top couple of players in the league it ain't gonna happen. You can go blow it up to strive for a championship but the overwhelming likelihood is that you're gonna completely suck for 10 years and then just get back to the same level again. The odds of stumbling across a LeBron type are so miniscule it defies logic.

I'm with fish, get to a competitive level for a sustained period of time, then hope that one of your guys somehow explodes a la Curry And just enjoy that ride.


or you can go thru The Process .. no thanks.

 

[fishonjazz]

So we'll get eliminated in the western conference finals instead of western conference semifinals. Same result to me. My goal is championships not a few western conference finals appearances. I understand we were hurt this year, but we were last year too. At some point it becomes an excuse. Can we really count on being healthy next year when this group has never been healthy? I don't think so. Can we really win a championship if they are? I still think we're a third star away.

Ok so what is your plan to get lebron plus two other all stars or the equivalent? Or go the two mvp's plus a couple more all stars route like the warriors.
How you gonna make that happen here in utah?

That's about the only way to win a championship.

San Antonio, houston, washington, and Boston don't have a chance. We are about as good or better than all those teams when healthy.

 

[Ron Mexico]

do you have any idea of the amount of luck it takes to win a championship ? Unless you have one of the top couple of players in the league it ain't gonna happen. You can go blow it up to strive for a championship but the overwhelming likelihood is that you're gonna completely suck for 10 years and then just get back to the same level again. The odds of stumbling across a LeBron type are so miniscule it defies logic.

I'm with fish, get to a competitive level for a sustained period of time, then hope that one of your guys somehow explodes a la Curry And just enjoy that ride.


or you can go thru The Process .. no thanks.

Yeah, the best you can do is be the best team possible and hope things fall your way. If you are a top 5 team in the NBA you could potentially catch a break and make it. The longer you are near the top the more chances you get for good fortune. Look at the old Stockton/Malone teams. They never won it but they stayed near the top and got really close, but most years they didnt make the finals.

Look at GS, they didnt instantly become the favorites. They had Curry catch on fire and make a big jump one season. Then the #2 best player in the NBA decided to join them. GS was never the favorite to win a Championship until they did.

GS won 47 games. Then they lost in the second round. Then they won 51 games the next year and lost to the Clippers in the first round. Then things came together for them. They got a new coach and Curry made a big jump. Then they won their first Championship. But the next year they were the heavy favorite to win and didnt.

Jazz are a step ahead of the team that won 51 games from GS. Can we add another good player and make a jump? Can we stay somewhat healthy and win 10-15 more regular season games? They added Iguodala the 51 win season and then the next year the team really came together. We can follow that path. It might not be next year but we have a shot if things work out in the next 2-5 years with this group.

FYI the year before GS won a championship and lost to the Clippers in the first round their best player Curry averaged 23 points on .440 shooting. David Lee was their third biggest scorer. The next year Curry jumped to 28 ppg on 45% shooting. Hayward this year averaged 24 points on .440 shooting including his sick game. I think he could jump to 28 ppg on 45% shooting next year just fine. Can we have other players step up and be as good as their second and third best players that year Green and Thompson? I think its a possibility. Especially if we add another all-star.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah, the best you can do is be the best team possible and hope things fall your way. If you are a top 5 team in the NBA you could potentially catch a break and make it. The longer you are near the top the more chances you get for good fortune. Look at the old Stockton/Malone teams. They never won it but they stayed near the top and got really close, but most years they didnt make the finals.

Look at GS, they didnt instantly become the favorites. They had Curry catch on fire and make a big jump one season. Then the #2 best player in the NBA decided to join them. GS was never the favorite to win a Championship until they did.

GS won 47 games. Then they lost in the second round. Then they won 51 games the next year and lost to the Clippers in the first round. Then things came together for them. They got a new coach and Curry made a big jump. Then they won their first Championship. But the next year they were the heavy favorite to win and didnt.

Jazz are a step ahead of the team that won 51 games from GS. Can we add another good player and make a jump? Can we stay somewhat healthy and win 10-15 more regular season games?

FYI the year before GS won a championship and lost to the Clippers in the first round their best player Curry averaged 23 points on .440 shooting. David Lee was their third biggest scorer. The next year Curry jumped to 28 ppg on 45% shooting. Hayward this year averaged 24 points on .440 shooting including his sick game. I think he could jump to 28 ppg on 45% shooting next year just fine. Can we have other players step up and be as good as their second and third best players that year Green and Thompson? I think its a possibility. Especially if we add another all-star.

Plus the warriors got lucky to sign curry for so cheap. And got lucky draymond turned out so good. (iirc he was a late late pick)
And fortunate that klay ended up so good.

If people are only satisfied with championships then it's unlikely that they will ever be satisfied.

Sounds like there are quite a few people who think that if you are winning over 50 games and getting homecourt in the playoffs and advancing but not winning championships then we should trade everyone for draft picks and start over.

No thanks

 

[SCS]

do you have any idea of the amount of luck it takes to win a championship ? Unless you have one of the top couple of players in the league it ain't gonna happen. You can go blow it up to strive for a championship but the overwhelming likelihood is that you're gonna completely suck for 10 years and then just get back to the same level again. The odds of stumbling across a LeBron type are so miniscule it defies logic.

I'm with fish, get to a competitive level for a sustained period of time, then hope that one of your guys somehow explodes a la Curry And just enjoy that ride.


or you can go thru The Process .. no thanks.

Yes I'm very aware of how much luck it takes. But you don't have to have a megastar like Lebron to win a title. The blueprint for us to win a title is 3 all star level players (Gobert, Hayward + 1) and a good supporting cast. A Spurs, 04 Pistons, Dirk's Mavs type blueprint. To have a chance to make that blueprint work you have to put yourself in good position financially to make moves happen if an opportunity presents itself. You have to have options. Committing 25-30 million dollars over 4-5 years to a 30 year old point guard who can't stay healthy when we're already going to be over the cap keeping Hayward is waiving bye bye to ALL options. We're not getting out from under that contract if it goes bad which given Hill's age and health has a STRONG possibility of happening.

 

[SCS]

Ok so what is your plan to get lebron plus two other all stars or the equivalent? Or go the two mvp's plus a couple more all stars route like the warriors.
How you gonna make that happen here in utah?

That's about the only way to win a championship.

San Antonio, houston, washington, and Boston don't have a chance. We are about as good or better than all those teams when healthy.

My plan isn't to get Lebron + 2 stars. My plan is to have Gobert and Hayward and find a third via trade, the draft, or free agency in the future. To have the wiggle room to accomplish that we need to avoid contracts which will handcuff us on a single path. Like paying Hill a ridiculous sum for a ridiculous amount of years.

 

[Douchebag K]

My plan isn't to get Lebron + 2 stars. My plan is to have Gobert and Hayward and find a third via trade, the draft, or free agency in the future. To have the wiggle room to accomplish that we need to avoid contracts which will handcuff us on a single path. Like paying Hill a ridiculous sum for a ridiculous amount of years.

so what kind of 3rd star do you think we're going to get without trading one of ours ? Or if you happen to luck onto one in the draft, at best it'll still take 3-4 years to get that player to star level. Free agency .. highly unlikely a true star level player at that standard is signing to the Jazz

 

[416Klawzz]

I want Hayward back not hill.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

My plan isn't to get Lebron + 2 stars. My plan is to have Gobert and Hayward and find a third via trade, the draft, or free agency in the future. To have the wiggle room to accomplish that we need to avoid contracts which will handcuff us on a single path. Like paying Hill a ridiculous sum for a ridiculous amount of years.

What if hill stays healthy and plays like an all star (like he was before any injuries)?
Then would we have our three stars (2 of them continuing to improve). So that would work out like your plan, ya?

 

[fishonjazz]

Free agency .. highly unlikely a true star level player at that standard is signing to the Jazz

From what I have been reading on JazzFanz lately we can't afford a star from free agency unless it's one of our own players (hill) and if that's the case (I'm not sure it is but I think that's what people have been saying)then his plan is impossible.

 

[SCS]

What if hill stays healthy and plays like an all star (like he was before any injuries)?
Then would we have our three stars (2 of them continuing to improve). So that would work out like your plan, ya?

Even when healthy he's not an all star level player. 16.9 and 4 is all star? And he hasn't been healthy for 3 seasons, why would he be next year? He's only going to regress. He's 31...

 

[Ron Mexico]

so what kind of 3rd star do you think we're going to get without trading one of ours ? Or if you happen to luck onto one in the draft, at best it'll still take 3-4 years to get that player to star level. Free agency .. highly unlikely a true star level player at that standard is signing to the Jazz

I think Paul George is the only possibility. He is a high risk since it is known he wants to go to LA. But one season with the Jazz and if all goes well we push GS or better than I think he stays. But you never know what trades might pop up.

I guess there is a chance a high level player likes the Jazz and comes in FA although there really arent that many this year. But there is CP3, Griffin, Lowry, Durant, Steph, and that might be it. I dont see a situation of any of those guys coming to the Jazz, although I would like to see us at least try.

 

[Magic Spray]

I hated this movie when it came out under its original title: Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley.

 

[Magic Spray]

Even when healthy he's not an all star level player. 16.9 and 4 is all star? And he hasn't been healthy for 3 seasons, why would he be next year? He's only going to regress. He's 31...

Unless the Jazz hire the entire Suns training staff that got Steve Nash and Grant Hill to play 10 years younger than their bodies.

 

[SCS]

so what kind of 3rd star do you think we're going to get without trading one of ours ? Or if you happen to luck onto one in the draft, at best it'll still take 3-4 years to get that player to star level. Free agency .. highly unlikely a true star level player at that standard is signing to the Jazz

The Pistons picked up Rasheed Wallace with patience when the opportunity presented itself. They didn't give up their stars. Lakers picked up Pau without giving up stars. You wait for an oppurtunity and cash in young assets and picks. PG-13, Butler, Brook Lopez all possibilities this summer in trade. And that's just a few right now. We got to be patient. We can't just say "oh this is what we have and it's what we're stuck with because nobody wants to come to Utah" or "the Jazz have never done a trade like that before so they never will".

 

[fishonjazz]

Even when healthy he's not an all star level player. 16.9 and 4 is all star? And he hasn't been healthy for 3 seasons, why would he be next year? He's only going to regress. He's 31...

I have yet to hear your plan and the players you would get.