Hood traded to Cleveland for Crowder; Johnson to Sacramento

[Jack Strop]

Way to go Lindsey and KOC (the puppet master) how embarrassing. This is what you come up with during trade deadline? Why haven't we won a championship yet? ?
You could traded Hood and a 1st round pick for Mirotic, but you decline because of giving up a 1st round pick, but this is your master plan? You also decline 20 offers for Hood, but this is the deal you accept?
Lindsey can go to hell along with KOC. Idiots.

Or, Lindsey can wait until this summer, still have a lottery pick, have Crowder and STILL be in play for Mirotic after NO needs to dump his salary to stay under the tax after re-signing Boogie. Then the price might be a 2nd round pick or if not, the Jazz' pick that falls in the 20's in 2019.

Or how about this scenario? DL calls Jabari on July 1st and asks if he'd want to play for Utah. Milwaukee doesn't want to pay the luxury tax and either negotiates a S&T with Utah or simply declines and Parker signs an offer sheet. Utah can EASILY clear cap space by trading Burks (probably requires a future pick), and not picking up the options on Thabo, Udoh and Jerebko.

Or maybe Favors decides to return. Favs is the big 4 when we need to match up. Crowder splits time at the 3/4. The 1/2 is Rubio, Mitchell, Dante and Royce. There simply isn't room to pay Hood $12-18M, depending on which way the wind blows in FA. You may say cap space is tight. But if teams mostly keep their own, the next tier of FA's is players like Hood and Favors. And there are teams like Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta, etc. that WILL have money. Just takes one of those teams to want Hood and give him a big deal. Look at Hill. Sacramento was virtually the only team that wanted him last year. They bid against themselves and jacked his price up to $19m.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I've never seen or heard anything to suggest that he'd be an issue, aside from Windhorst saying that there was a divide between IT/Jae and the rest of the Cavs from the beginning. But that situation was just dysfunctional.

I just watched this video....



He comes across to me as probably being very intense before, during (which we've seen) and after games. And he seems very passionate about winning. But he also seems like he's very smart and level-headed.

I wasn’t referring to just his time in Cleveland... reporter types have described him as prickly... the chip on the shoulder is good but can become a problem too. I’m sure it will work out.

 

[Dali]

Goodbye Rodney Hood, thanks for everything.

And now we move on. Crowder's chip on his shoulder, and apparent drive for success could align well with rudy's and Mitchell's drive for success. Time will tell. It's an okay trade considering the circumstances.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Or, Lindsey can wait until this summer, still have a lottery pick, have Crowder and STILL be in play for Mirotic after NO needs to dump his salary to stay under the tax after re-signing Boogie. Then the price might be a 2nd round pick or if not, the Jazz' pick that falls in the 20's in 2019.

Or how about this scenario? DL calls Jabari on July 1st and asks if he'd want to play for Utah. Milwaukee doesn't want to pay the luxury tax and either negotiates a S&T with Utah or simply declines and Parker signs an offer sheet. Utah can EASILY clear cap space by trading Burks (probably requires a future pick), and not picking up the options on Thabo, Udoh and Jerebko.

Or maybe Favors decides to return. Favs is the big 4 when we need to match up. Crowder splits time at the 3/4. The 1/2 is Rubio, Mitchell, Dante and Royce. There simply isn't room to pay Hood $12-18M, depending on which way the wind blows in FA. You may say cap space is tight. But if teams mostly keep their own, the next tier of FA's is players like Hood and Favors. And there are teams like Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta, etc. that WILL have money. Just takes one of those teams to want Hood and give him a big deal. Look at Hill. Sacramento was virtually the only team that wanted him last year. They bid against themselves and jacked his price up to $19m.

Yea , not exactly how that works. You refuse 20 offered to accept Jay Crowder and bet on yourself in free agency. The teams that win in free agency are teams with a beach or no state taxes. L.A. , G.S., Dal, Hou, SAS, Miami.
How often are free agents flocking to Utah based on the past experiences ?
DL calls a player and offers a deal and they come running? Really? Do you know how this works . They have agents that prevent them from coming to teams like Utah. The agents actually answer the phone. Jabari isn't answering DL's phone call. The agents decide what calls go through .
But your right, it would be great to have this magic wand you speak of and a GM that not only has a brain, but that can also poop Skittles and gold coins . Until then, learn how this whole thing works.

 

[Jack Strop]

Goodbye Rodney Hood, thanks for everything.

And now we move on. Crowder's chip on his shoulder, and apparent drive for success could align well with rudy's and Mitchell's drive for success. Time will tell. It's an okay trade considering the circumstances.

Add in Ingles, O'Neale and Coach Q. All those guys are Driven (and yes, that's an intentional reference to Larry H's biography). Hood was soft. And could only play/defend the 2.

 

[fallenchicken]

Are people really crazy about giving Jabari a poison-contract max? I'm genuinely asking--is he that good?

 

[Jack Strop]

Yea , not exactly how that works. You refuse 20 offered to accept Jay Crowder and bet on yourself in free agency. The teams that win in free agency are teams with a beach or no state taxes. L.A. , G.S., Dal, Hou, SAS, Miami.
How often are free agents flocking to Utah based on the past experiences ?
DL calls a player and offers a deal and they come running? Really? Do you know how this works . They have agents that prevent them from coming to teams like Utah. The agents actually answer the phone. Jabari isn't answering DL's phone call. The agents decide what calls go through .
But your right, it would be great to have this magic wand you speak of and a GM that not only has a brain, but that can also poop Skittles and gold coins . Until then, learn how this whole thing works.

Should I have said calls Jabari's camp? It's the same damn thing. DL calls his agent, who then hangs up the phone and immediately informs Jabari of the offer. More than likely, the "rumor" has already floated out there - we know tampering isn't really tampering any more. Agents want to get paid. Milwaukee has already lowballed Parker. If Utah is willing to offer $30M and other teams only have $20M, do you think the agent is going to tell Jabari to accept a 4/$80M instead of a 4/$120M. That's ridiculous.

There's also the fact Jabari would have no problem with the lack of nightlife in Utah, the weird liquor laws, etc. Now if that max player is Lebron, Durant, Kwahi or a player like Klay, yes, I think the chances of acquiring him would be remote. But you're saying Utah would be better off keeping a player against his will by matching an offer sheet (which may or may not be reasonable)? Parker's actually the most "gettable" upper-tier FA for Utah, given the fact Milwaukee would have to go deep into the tax to match an offer AND his religion.Not saying it will happen. But Lindsey has kept the possibly open by not taking on dead contracts. Or, a S&T could be arranged. Jazz have $10M+ in non-guaranteed salaries to start with and then some other options to get to what they'd need to trade (like including Crowder and Burks).

Hood would have had a cap hold of $7M. Once he signs an offer sheet the Jazz have what, 3 days to decide? So any cap space could quickly disappear. This is not like Ingles waiting 30 days to sign his deal so Utah could use their cap space to sign Jerebko, Udoh and Thabo first.

 

[The Midnight]

Yea , not exactly how that works. You refuse 20 offered to accept Jay Crowder and bet on yourself in free agency. The teams that win in free agency are teams with a beach or no state taxes. L.A. , G.S., Dal, Hou, SAS, Miami.
How often are free agents flocking to Utah based on the past experiences ?
DL calls a player and offers a deal and they come running? Really? Do you know how this works . They have agents that prevent them from coming to teams like Utah. The agents actually answer the phone. Jabari isn't answering DL's phone call. The agents decide what calls go through .
But your right, it would be great to have this magic wand you speak of and a GM that not only has a brain, but that can also poop Skittles and gold coins . Until then, learn how this whole thing works.

Um, how do you know what those 20 offers were exactly? How do you know Crowder wasn't the best offer out of those 20 offers?

 

[Jack Strop]

Are people really crazy about giving Jabari a poison-contract max? I'm genuinely asking--is he that good?

Well, we have 1/2 season to see, right? If not, other options are Favors, Mirotic, Gordon, and a few others.

 

[Jack Strop]

Um, how do you know what those 20 offers were exactly? How do you know Crowder wasn't the best offer out of those 20 offers?

Exactly. And nobody said there were 20 offers, just that there were perhaps that many teams interested. Some were probably bottom feeding, looking to get Hood for a 2nd round pick. I seriously doubt ANY team offered a lottery pick. So is Crowder better than a pick in the 20's or late teens?

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Um, how do you know what those 20 offers were exactly? How do you know Crowder wasn't the best offer out of those 20 offers?

One can only speculate that out of 20 offers, the best one was not Jae Crowder. It really doesn't get worse than that offer. Unless you want to start offering cheerleader pom pom's in exchange for Hood. The one we know that the Jazz turned down was, Rodney Hood and a future 1st round protected pick for Mirotic. We said no because of the 1st round pick. But we said yes to Jae Crowder??

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Should I have said calls Jabari's camp? It's the same damn thing. DL calls his agent, who then hangs up the phone and immediately informs Jabari of the offer. More than likely, the "rumor" has already floated out there - we know tampering isn't really tampering any more. Agents want to get paid. Milwaukee has already lowballed Parker. If Utah is willing to offer $30M and other teams only have $20M, do you think the agent is going to tell Jabari to accept a 4/$80M instead of a 4/$120M. That's ridiculous.

There's also the fact Jabari would have no problem with the lack of nightlife in Utah, the weird liquor laws, etc. Now if that max player is Lebron, Durant, Kwahi or a player like Klay, yes, I think the chances of acquiring him would be remote. But you're saying Utah would be better off keeping a player against his will by matching an offer sheet (which may or may not be reasonable)? Parker's actually the most "gettable" upper-tier FA for Utah, given the fact Milwaukee would have to go deep into the tax to match an offer AND his religion.Not saying it will happen. But Lindsey has kept the possibly open by not taking on dead contracts. Or, a S&T could be arranged. Jazz have $10M+ in non-guaranteed salaries to start with and then some other options to get to what they'd need to trade (like including Crowder and Burks).

Hood would have had a cap hold of $7M. Once he signs an offer sheet the Jazz have what, 3 days to decide? So any cap space could quickly disappear. This is not like Ingles waiting 30 days to sign his deal so Utah could use their cap space to sign Jerebko, Udoh and Thabo first.

How far in left field can one travel??

 

[NUMBERICA]

How far in left field can one travel??

You're finding out.

 

[The Midnight]

One can only speculate that out of 20 offers, the best one was not Jae Crowder.

So... you're only speculating?

 

[The Midnight]

The one we know that the Jazz turned down was, Rodney Hood and a future 1st round protected pick for Mirotic.

It's pretty unanimous around the League and everyone who follows it that the Pelicans overpaid by giving up their 1st round pick for Mirotic.. and you're GIVING them HOOD as well?

 

[Et tu Brute]

We shall see. If he plays like he did last year that is better than Ingles.

Better than Ingles this year? I doubt it. Are you using advanced metrics here?

 

[Et tu Brute]

Inlges plays good defense. But he also benefits from being able to be physical and aggressive since Gobert has his back. Crowder was a good defender last year and his defensive style will fit in well with that. Crowder is a better scorer, he can drive and get to the line along with being a better rebounder.

There are aspects of Ingles game I like better. The Ingles we have seen the last few games is great. The Ingles that disappears and refuses to shoot open shots is one we have seen a lot as well this year. He has been up and down this year. I just think Inlges needs a slightly smaller role.

I understand some of this evaluation, but I don't quite get how Ingles having a smaller role marries up with him taking more shots? Am I missing something.

 

[Et tu Brute]

I am starting to worry the Jazz FO see Exum as a 2.... Is this really what people think his best position will be? Could he evolve into a 'small' 3?

 

[Et tu Brute]

Sure will!

These stats are for Ingles best year this year and Crowder's best year last year. I am hoping Crowder can get back to that. Inlges has been better than Crowder this year like I stated but I like Crowders potential to push Ingles for that SF spot next year if he can get back to Boston form or better.

Ingles vs Crowder

Age 30 vs 26 NBA players tend to decline at 30. Hopefully Ingles is the exception. Players are just entering their prime at 26. I think Crowder has room to grow and improve. Ingles has had the benefit of playing in a much better system this year.

Points 10.2 vs 13.9 Even per 100 or per 36 Crowder has outscrored Ingles. Some of this is due to Crowder shooting a little more but again that is a knock on Ingles, he passes up shots he should take. Although not during the last few games, so hopefully he keeps that up. Crowder can also score in more ways.

Rebounding 4.0 vs 5.8 Advanced rebounding stats also show Crowder is a better rebounder. I think he hustles all around more than Ingles. That is why he runs a lot more miles per game than Ingles. Ingles does try to body up his guy though. Crowder is just better.

3 point shooting 44.8% on 5.4 attempts vs 39.8% on 5.5 attempts. Ingles is a better shooter.

Inside scoring. Crowder is much better at scoring inside. His %s are better his attempts are way better. He gets to the FT line way more. Its not really close here. Crowder is a better scorer outside of jump shots.

Passing 4.1 vs 2.2 Ingles is a better passer. Ingles is a pass first guy unless he is open. Crowder is more of a scorer who is a willing passer but not nearly as good at it.

PER Ingles 13.2 vs Crowder 14.9 Crowder is better

TS% 62 vs 61 pretty close slight advantage for Ingles.

WS 3.8 vs 6.7 Huge advantage for Crowder

Vorp 1.7 vs 2.1

Offensive rating 113 vs 118 Crowder is better here. They are tied for the same defensive rating.

Defense is the big one for these two that I see both arguments. I think they are both good wing defenders and about the same. Ingles has been backed up in the post by Gobert and Crowder has had little to no post defense to rely on. Crowder is a better post defender and can defend the 4 a bit. Ingles gets abused there. Ingles had a great playoff series last year defensively which bumps him up a bit.

But Crowder also had a much bigger role than Ingles in the playoffs last year and really stepped up. Ingles stepped up defensively but that hurt him on offense where he shot much worse than usual and wasnt much of a factor on offense. Crowder shot the 3 better and 15 ppg in the playoffs. He was pretty big in the playoffs for Boston.


In conclusion they are both starter quality wings that are not all-star level or going to be all-star level. I think they are in similar tiers but I think Ingles role is better off the bench when he is allowed to do more with the ball and help create. They can play together well. I just think Crowder can push Ingles to start. He might not get the start over him but he could.

Again they are pretty similar tiered players and claiming Ingles is much better and its not close is a little silly. Just like saying the opposite would be.

Have to respect the effort put in here...

 

[Et tu Brute]

Hood was really efficient for the difficulty level of the shots he took. All he has to do is figure out how to get to the FT line a couple more times a game, which he was starting to show signs of.

This trade wont hurt this year, but when he blows up next year a lot of people will be questioning it.

Playing with Lebron will mean he probably blows up. He is going to get so many open looks and so many opportunities to take it into the paint for his sweet foul line pull-up..