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How are we going to score without Al?

Mantis said:
Actually they drafted OJ Mayo and traded him for Love, and had Love and AJ on the roster together for two seasons. They were both on the team when Jefferson tore his ACL in the 08-09 season, at the time they were 17-33 (0.340), but went 7-25 (0.218) over the rest of the season. So the T-pups weren't actually better without Big Al.

The next season, with AJ back from injury but not playing as well as before (he was averaging 23 and 11 before his injury, numbers he hasn't approached since), they went 15-67. Then the T-pups decided they couldn't have both AJ and Love on the same team. They wanted more court-time for the younger player, so basically gave away Al. The result was a 17-65 season, not a big difference. It wasn't until Rubio arrived the next season their record improved - their record was 21-20 when he injured his knee, and they fizzled to end up 26-40. Hmmm, they wanted to find court-time for a young big, but they really needed an elite passing PG to become a better team... something familiar about this story.

[As an aside: Kurt Rambis coached them to their 15-67 and 17-65 seasons, an overall 0.195 winning percentage. Adelman came in the next season but in games without Rubio, they went 5-20, a 0.200 winning percentage. So changing coaches made less difference to their record than adding Rubio.]
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Oh yeah, I got ya.
 
Qman said:
Hmm, no Al leads to good ball movement and wide open 3's. Interesting.
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Well, we also played a team which is actually even WORSE on the road than Utah is. And they handed the Jazz their lunch for most of the 1st quarter until our depth won out. Jazz will not be shooting wide open 3's against the better teams in the league. But yes, it was nice to see ball movement. That definitely needs to continue. And I saw all-out effort from everyone. I may have been wrong about Carroll being just a scrub. He's playing like Millsap of old, going after every ball and developing his offense a bit.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
I doubt we could get anyone better than Mo Williams for Al Jefferson.

Kind of the bad thing about this team. It seems like most trades we could make would only be lateral moves. Seems like it might just be better to let everyone expire and try to get a big name in FA.
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Good point.
I think we can be a pretty decent team with EITHER Jefferson OR Millsap, but not both. Unfortunately, both of those players would resist coming off the bench. I was hoping we'd be able to get a top-10 pick from GS and then somewhere in the mid-teens with our pick. That should have been good enough to move up for a decent PG or young PF. However, GS isn't cooperating. Looks like the draft picks we get will restock the bench, but neither will bring us an impact player. In that case, Lindsey/KOC will need to let Jefferson and Millsap expire and sign a very good FA or two.
 
MoTown16 said:
Good point.
I think we can be a pretty decent team with EITHER Jefferson OR Millsap, but not both. Unfortunately, both of those players would resist coming off the bench. I was hoping we'd be able to get a top-10 pick from GS and then somewhere in the mid-teens with our pick. That should have been good enough to move up for a decent PG or young PF. However, GS isn't cooperating. Looks like the draft picks we get will restock the bench, but neither will bring us an impact player. In that case, Lindsey/KOC will need to let Jefferson and Millsap expire and sign a very good FA or two.
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Names
 
Mantis said:
Actually they drafted OJ Mayo and traded him for Love, and had Love and AJ on the roster together for two seasons. They were both on the team when Jefferson tore his ACL in the 08-09 season, at the time they were 17-33 (0.340), but went 7-25 (0.218) over the rest of the season. So the T-pups weren't actually better without Big Al.

The next season, with AJ back from injury but not playing as well as before (he was averaging 23 and 11 before his injury, numbers he hasn't approached since), they went 15-67. Then the T-pups decided they couldn't have both AJ and Love on the same team. They wanted more court-time for the younger player, so basically gave away Al. The result was a 17-65 season, not a big difference. It wasn't until Rubio arrived the next season their record improved - their record was 21-20 when he injured his knee, and they fizzled to end up 26-40. Hmmm, they wanted to find court-time for a young big, but they really needed an elite passing PG to become a better team... something familiar about this story.

[As an aside: Kurt Rambis coached them to their 15-67 and 17-65 seasons, an overall 0.195 winning percentage. Adelman came in the next season but in games without Rubio, they went 5-20, a 0.200 winning percentage. So changing coaches made less difference to their record than adding Rubio.]
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Trade for rubio!
 
DutchJazzer said:
so tell me brother.
if big al gets that line. people are happy.

difference is kanter defense makes up for lack of assist/lack of rebounds/points
i'd take kanter 18-8 with 0 assist
over big al 23 points 12 rebounds 2 assist or whatever
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Agreed, with the exception of noting that Jefferson would have gone 35/14/5 against that lineup.
 
For perspective:

Al is the 19th highest paid player in the league this season.

Al is tied (with Kemba Walker) for 25th in points per game (17.4).

Among the top 50 scorers in the NBA (coincidentally, these are the players who've scored 15.0+ ppg), Al is tied for 22nd in points per possession (this accounts for turnovers and fouls drawn). 3 players are tied with Al (Blake Griffin, Nic Batum, Goran Dragic).

Of the 24 players who score more points per game than Al, 12 score more efficiently (with one, Blake Griffin, tied).
 
Jazz were 2-0 without Millsap last season, avg. margin of victory 10 points? Is that 40% as meaningful as being 4-1 without Al?
 
The overreaction to Al's absence is not unexpected, but did anyone bother to notice we crushed a team that was 4-15, on the 3rd game of a road trip, and currently sports the 25th ranked defense?
 
Did you see the ball movin around? Did you have fun?

The Middle Ages are almost over.
 
billyshelby said:
This is your basic cause/correlation fallacy.
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Or not. Isn't it possible that Al's absence is one of the reasons games without Al have been more entertaining? I know you've always been big on sticking to your guns (CJ!), but do you find Al-ball entertaining? How easily can a contender be built around a player like Al? Do you see that happening?
 
GVC said:
Or not. Isn't it possible that Al's absence is one of the reasons games without Al have been more entertaining? I know you've always been big on sticking to your guns (CJ!), but do you find Al-ball entertaining? How easily can a contender be built around a player like Al? Do you see that happening?
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I think you were entertained because it was our first big blowout of the year.
 
GVC said:
Or not. Isn't it possible that Al's absence is one of the reasons games without Al have been more entertaining? I know you've always been big on sticking to your guns (CJ!), but do you find Al-ball entertaining? How easily can a contender be built around a player like Al? Do you see that happening?
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It's plain silly to draw sweeping conclusions from a single game. Especially when the opponent was 4-15, on the 3rd game of a road trip, and has the 25th ranked defense in the league. Toronto had lost 8 of their last 9 games for god's sake.
 
GVC said:
For perspective:

Al is the 19th highest paid player in the league this season.

Al is tied (with Kemba Walker) for 25th in points per game (17.4).

Among the top 50 scorers in the NBA (coincidentally, these are the players who've scored 15.0+ ppg), Al is tied for 22nd in points per possession (this accounts for turnovers and fouls drawn). 3 players are tied with Al (Blake Griffin, Nic Batum, Goran Dragic).

Of the 24 players who score more points per game than Al, 12 score more efficiently (with one, Blake Griffin, tied).
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Interesting stats. Do you know of any measurements that show the benefit other players receive from dominant players demanding so much attention? That's what I'd use to compare Big Al's true value. Most fans are oblivious to this aspect of NBA caliber offenses.
 
GVC said:
Or not. Isn't it possible that Al's absence is one of the reasons games without Al have been more entertaining? I know you've always been big on sticking to your guns (CJ!), but do you find Al-ball entertaining? How easily can a contender be built around a player like Al? Do you see that happening?
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I think shaq has it right when he talks about how Howard should score. The same can be applied to a guy like Al. Al takes three shots per quarter. The rest of his points are from put backs and going to the line
 
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