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How bad is Kanter?

GVC said:
You're still missing my point. I'm citing those examples to highlight what DL hasn't done to date: No trades for longterm players, no notable free agency acquisitions, no playoff appearances, contention still years away. The Jazz can't afford to miss out on opportunities to add talent
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I disagree. He's not skipping steps. Upon becoming GM, we already had Burks, Hayward and Favors. He's since drafted Burke, Gobert, Exum, Hood, Neto and Lyles. All contribute. He's added talent and believes in growing the team organically, as do I. Signing a player at any of those positions would severely cut into the development of said players and in doing so give him, Quin and the staff a muddled view of just what they have in that talent. He's likely realized that signing a guy to simply get us an extra 3-5 wins isn't the way to go. Let Quin truly develop these guys and then, when we have matured some and their ceilings have been ironed out, advance, so to speak.

That said, I do think once Exum went down, we should've strongly pursued a perimeter shooting, defensive-minded PG ala Chalmers (or at least he used to be) to solidify the starters and give the rest of the team both individually and collectively, a chance to flourish this year.
 
Keep in mind, the Golden State trade was completed over 28 months ago. Since then, the only trade DL has made is the Kanter trade (that is, he was only active in the summer of 2013). The only free agents DL has signed are Booker, Pleiss, Neto, and a bunch of DLeaguers (also claimed Ingles). Is there a GM in the league who has done less in the last 28 months?
 
I know he's the face of the franchise but I'd do a Hayward/Burks/OKC 1st/protected Utah 1st for Paul George and decent bench guy type of trade to give us a true, fairly proven alpha. The fan base would be stunned but once we started performing better, they'd forget all about Gordon.
 
GVC said:
Keep in mind, the Golden State trade was completed over 28 months ago. Since then, the only trade DL has made is the Kanter trade (that is, he was only active in the summer of 2013). The only free agents DL has signed are Booker, Pleiss, Neto, and a bunch of DLeaguers (also claimed Ingles). Is there a GM in the league who has done less in the last 28 months?
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Vlade. By doing more, he's done less.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
I disagree. He's not skipping steps. Upon becoming GM, we already had Burks, Hayward and Favors. He's since drafted Burke, Gobert, Exum, Hood, Neto and Lyles. All contribute. He's added talent and believes in growing the team organically, as do I. Signing a player at any of those positions would severely cut into the development of said players and in doing so give him, Quin and the staff a muddled view of just what they have in that talent. He's likely realized that signing a guy to simply get us an extra 3-5 wins isn't the way to go. Let Quin truly develop these guys and then, when we have matured some and their ceilings have been ironed out, advance, so to speak.
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Holy ****. With the length of NBA contracts now, if you sit around and wait until things are completely clear, you end up getting nothing for players who end up being key pieces on contenders. This "not skipping steps" nonsense is infuriating. He's not taking steps either.
 
GVC said:
Holy ****. With the length of NBA contracts now, if you sit around and wait until things are completely clear, you end up getting nothing for players who end up being key pieces on contenders. This "not skipping steps" nonsense is infuriating. He's not taking steps either.
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What FA's would you have liked he signed over the last two summers?
 
GVC said:
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're trolling me.
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Admittedly, I haven't read the entire thread so if this was already posed to you and/or you already mentioned certain names, I've not seen it.
 
In case you missed the answer to your initial question, subsequent posts, and the rest of my posts in this thread:

GVC said:
If you think the team has enough talent to legitimately contend in the next few years -- after which DL will have to make decisions on Jazz unrestricted free agents (e.g. Gordo can opt out after next season) -- that's not that big a deal. I don't think that. As such, DL still has work to do to add talent. He hasn't shown an ability to do that outside the draft, which is worrisome given where the Jazz will be drafting and the impending unrestricted free agency of current Jazz players. As I've said, the near universal worship of DL on this site is premature.
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What if DL punts for a third straight season (probable), and the Jazz miss the playoffs again (very possible)? Are you fine with your GM effectively doing nothing for 3 years, despite having a fringe playoff team with no surefire all-stars?
 
GVC said:
In case you missed the answer to your initial question, subsequent posts, and the rest of my posts in this thread:



What if DL punts for a third straight season (probable), and the Jazz miss the playoffs again (very possible)? Are you fine with your GM effectively doing nothing for 3 years, despite having a fringe playoff team with no surefire all-stars?
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I think a move would have to be made this off-season. We wouldn't be able to simply say, well, Exum is back. Let's see how everyone jells. That would be an excuse imo as to why our players had not to that point developed enough (I'm looking at you Gordon) and carried the team to s much success as was expected.
 
One trade I proposed last season was for Stauskas. He was so bad and the Kings sucked and their Kings and I thought may give up on him because they're dumb and they did. Shooting is huge right now and he could be a lights out shooter. I wish we had made the trade the Sixers did.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
Vlade. By doing more, he's done less.
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1. Vlade was hired by the Kings in March, and became GM in August.

2. You don't think the Jazz would be better with Belinelli, Casspi and Koufos -- all signed this past season -- instead of Johnson, Pleiss and Withey (salary doesn't quite work to swap out Koufos and Withey for Rondo and Neto)?
 
GVC said:
1. Vlade was hired by the Kings in March, and became GM in August.

2. You don't think the Jazz would be better with Belinelli, Casspi and Koufos -- all signed this past season -- instead of Johnson, Pleiss and Withey (salary doesn't quite work to swap out Koufos and Withey for Rondo and Neto)?
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On the court, yes, obviously. I'd guess that's about 14M difference though and wonder if it would hinder our flexibility this summer. More importantly, are Belinelli and Casspi playing over Burks or Hood? I'd have loved Koufos though. Dude is underrated.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
One trade I proposed last season was for Stauskas. He was so bad and the Kings sucked and their Kings and I thought may give up on him because they're dumb and they did. Shooting is huge right now and he could be a lights out shooter. I wish we had made the trade the Sixers did.
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Stauskus isn't exactly tearing it up for the Sixers.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
On the court, yes, obviously. I'd guess that's about 14M difference though and wonder if it would hinder our flexibility this summer. More importantly, are Belinelli and Casspi playing over Burks or Hood? I'd have loved Koufos though. Dude is underrated.
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Three offseasons with loads of "flexibility" has landed the Jazz two late 1st-round picks (Hood and the 2017 GS 1st) and the garbage rounding out the Jazz roster. You could argue Vlade (really his predecessor) did more with one offseason of flexibility -- Rondo, Belinelli, Casspi, Koufos -- than DL has done with three.

Again, DL still has work to do. That "flexibility" isn't worth anything if it isn't used.

Note: Casspi apparently plays a lot of 4 next to WCS or Cousins.
 
It's also worth noting that players stalling in their development or just plain washing out is the norm. Just assuming that you can draft and you'll be keeping all of your players because they're worth keeping is a silly notion. There are roughly 270 rotation spots in the NBA for a world of >6 billion people. Most people and most players aren't going to make it. That's the problem I have with the 'draft some child, see how it goes, and do nothing else' approach. Is everyone aware that the Jazz didn't have to tank to get Gobert or Hood? That Exum is singularly the prize of all of that gutting? And then the Jazz did nothing last offseason? I don't know, I'm not down on DOL per se, but the worshipping is excessive.
 
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