The are nice areas but as you move towards the center of downtown Ogden the home prices fall of a cliff.
How does this happen in a civilised society?
- Thread starter Rubashov
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Historically the railroad came through the Ogden bypassing SLC. Hill Air force base is here. If I wanted to be somewhere separate from the dominant culture of Utah and find a tiny bit of diversity it would be in Ogden.
These sewer rats were there before Trump. He just normalized their assholery and led them by example.
I will start by saying this is heartbreaking. I cannot fathom the level of pain the family is going through. But only one side of the story is being heard.
My kids go to this school. I have had a kid enrolled there every year since it opened. My oldest daughter started in kindergarten there the first year it opened. She’s now a senior. In past instances when my daughter was bullied, I can tell you the administration handled it quickly, firmly, and appropriately.
My daughter had that teacher last year. I have been in that teacher’s classroom doing presentations and during class teaching hours. I was and am still having a very hard time believing the things I’m hearing about her. I won’t go so far as to say there is absolutely no way, but just about.
A member of my son’s baseball team is in that class this year. He says he never witnessed any kind of bullying or racist comments or interactions involving her. Again, I will not say these things weren’t happening. Having personally spoken to at least one member of the office staff and a couple substitute teachers at the school, I can tell you this: don’t believe everything you are hearing about it. The school staff has been put under a gag order by the district, but they are firm in saying not everything being circulated is accurate.
I DO NOT think this girl lied about anything. The only thing I’m saying is that my experience with this school and teacher in particular have been vastly different than what is being portrayed.
Again, this is heartbreaking. A terrible situation from every aspect.
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My kids go to this school. I have had a kid enrolled there every year since it opened. My oldest daughter started in kindergarten there the first year it opened. She’s now a senior. In past instances when my daughter was bullied, I can tell you the administration handled it quickly, firmly, and appropriately.
My daughter had that teacher last year. I have been in that teacher’s classroom doing presentations and during class teaching hours. I was and am still having a very hard time believing the things I’m hearing about her. I won’t go so far as to say there is absolutely no way, but just about.
A member of my son’s baseball team is in that class this year. He says he never witnessed any kind of bullying or racist comments or interactions involving her. Again, I will not say these things weren’t happening. Having personally spoken to at least one member of the office staff and a couple substitute teachers at the school, I can tell you this: don’t believe everything you are hearing about it. The school staff has been put under a gag order by the district, but they are firm in saying not everything being circulated is accurate.
I DO NOT think this girl lied about anything. The only thing I’m saying is that my experience with this school and teacher in particular have been vastly different than what is being portrayed.
Again, this is heartbreaking. A terrible situation from every aspect.
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Thanks for the insight.
I agree with you 100%. We are hearing the perspective of the family. I don't question their sincerity or honesty at all. Their situation is heartbreaking.
Often when something is reported, specifically when you report something, the response is not always visible to you which can make it seem like nothing has been done at all and no one cared about your situation. That doesn't mean that nothing has been done.
vegas
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Terrible tragedy. Throw me in with the uncool kids that dealt with some things at that age including stress caused ulcers at younger ages.
Its a solemn reminder we must be more kind to one another and seek to understand each other.
I had to search through lots of articles to find any specifics regarding the purported causes referenced in the headlines. I found 2 lines and one source.
Let's withhold our judgment for others and look inward as to what we can do until we have firm evidence as to the causes of any crime. Maybe the causes are precisely as described, but if they are not, false accusations simply destroy even more lives and could even provide cover for a currently unknown culprit.
We have all been falsely accused at one time or another, may we remember those experiences as we withhold judgment for others.
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Its a solemn reminder we must be more kind to one another and seek to understand each other.
I had to search through lots of articles to find any specifics regarding the purported causes referenced in the headlines. I found 2 lines and one source.
Let's withhold our judgment for others and look inward as to what we can do until we have firm evidence as to the causes of any crime. Maybe the causes are precisely as described, but if they are not, false accusations simply destroy even more lives and could even provide cover for a currently unknown culprit.
We have all been falsely accused at one time or another, may we remember those experiences as we withhold judgment for others.
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The Thriller
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The problem with all the “withhold judgements” talk is that we are less than a month away from this:
www.deseret.com
There just too much smoke here. And where there’s smoke, there’s fire. There’s clearly a systemic rot in this district. So while your children might not have experienced racism, the DOJ found hundreds who did, and the district didn’t do **** about them.
I wouldn’t doubt that this poor girl had a lot of stuff going on and I don’t doubt every district has racist/inappropriate bullying. But Davis seems to be a district with a pattern of bad behavior going unaddressed.
DOJ investigation reveals ‘serious and widespread racial harassment’ in this Utah school district
Here’s what a Department of Justice investigation revealed about the experiences of Black, Asian American students in Davis District schools.
www.deseret.com
There just too much smoke here. And where there’s smoke, there’s fire. There’s clearly a systemic rot in this district. So while your children might not have experienced racism, the DOJ found hundreds who did, and the district didn’t do **** about them.
I wouldn’t doubt that this poor girl had a lot of stuff going on and I don’t doubt every district has racist/inappropriate bullying. But Davis seems to be a district with a pattern of bad behavior going unaddressed.
SoUjazzfan
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It's an absolute heart wrenching tragedy. I would hope we can all use it as an opportunity to teach our children, grandchildren, nephews, nieces and anyone who will listen how they can be a tool in preventing things like this. I was bullied as a youngster but had a very popular cousin who took me under his wing and supported me with just being a friend. It made all the difference in the world with my scholastic experience. If our kids could stand up for, and with those being bullied it could make all the difference in the world.
LogGrad98
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This.
The problem with all the “withhold judgements” talk is that we are less than a month away from this:
DOJ investigation reveals ‘serious and widespread racial harassment’ in this Utah school district
Here’s what a Department of Justice investigation revealed about the experiences of Black, Asian American students in Davis District schools.
There just too much smoke here. And where there’s smoke, there’s fire. There’s clearly a systemic rot in this district. So while your children might not have experienced racism, the DOJ found hundreds who did, and the district didn’t do **** about them.
I wouldn’t doubt that this poor girl had a lot of stuff going on and I don’t doubt every district has racist/inappropriate bullying. But Davis seems to be a district with a pattern of bad behavior going unaddressed.
Please don’t mistake my earlier post as me disagreeing with this. My oldest son is in Jr. High and he’s made comments to us about the **** the teachers say and do. He’s openly called at least one racist.
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The Thriller
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And please don’t think I don’t agree with you and @Gameface either. I thought you two made good points about there being much more to the story than what we’ve been told. I think this poor girl had a lot going on. The district center disclose much due to litigation.
It’s just much harder for me (a fellow educator) to not find serious fault in Davis where our own damn DOJ has recently reported hundreds of racism complaints going unaddressed. To me, that district has shown a disturbing pattern and as much as I like their super and a few admins I’ve become familiar with, this leaves me to wonder if they’re in desperate need of some serious change?
There are absolutely many many things that need to be changed at the district and school level. I’m not disputing the claims made by this family or DOJ investigation. I simply gave some personal insights based on my personal experiences with this school and teacher.
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Miggs
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Why? Money. The answer is almost always money. We live in The Manipulation of Data Era. Districts love to make themselves look good. Or great. Low suspension numbers. Low bullying numbers. Etcetera. Handle it all in-house, “talk” to the kids, and remedy it without having to truly handle it in any serious manner that demands official reporting because hey, that’ll drive the numbers up, and reflect negatively on the Superintendent, Board of Education, and everybody on down the line. And God forbid we handle things with integrity and accountability. We MUST protect our jobs and thereby our salaries at all costs.
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Handlogten's Heros
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This stuff is so tough. I have one daughter that struggles with depression and is this same age. Kids are cruel. There is only so much teachers and staff can do to help... I'll be honest... when she has struggled most we do all we can to help her but I feel terrified that we have so little control once she's out in the world. We have been lucky/blessed that when we've asked for help from coaches, counselors, and teachers that there seems to be response and in some cases some kids have changed behavior. I can't imagine the hurt this girl felt and the pain her family gets to endure. Just a true tragedy.
lauriandres
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My observations based on my experience and not in a particular order.
1. Bullying is a natural phenomen among the humans and other mammals.
2. Bullying was in the past, is in the present and will be in the future. Only the reasons will change.
3. As all kids are fortunatelly different, then it is normal, that at schools there are pupils who are leaders and on worst case the bullying persons and then those ordinary kids and then those who are wussies (meant here as neutral term).
4. I was between the wussie and an ordinary boy. Of course i was ridiculed from time to time, specially when around 10-14 age. I was not the strongest one, not the weakest either. Mostly i tried to fight back with words. With estonians it worked.
5. Against russians only fist worked. Thankfully, i had very few cases. I was also kind of cowardish i.e i tried not be outside near the secondary(high) school which was in a district full of russians and i tried to take bus back to home as early as possible.
6. As a parent i try to teach my daughter to have a yakuza henchman behave-a-like attitude
should somebody try to harass her. And i try to teach, that it is better to somebody like Christine Breiner than somebody from "American Idol", "Osbournes", "Jersey Shore" etc. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.
7. I have tried my best to teach "you must help the weaker person".
8. Unfortunatelly, the parents of the bullying pupil almost always tell "my child is angel, he/she will never hurt somebody".
OK, i do not type more, because daughter wants to outside to walk
1. Bullying is a natural phenomen among the humans and other mammals.
2. Bullying was in the past, is in the present and will be in the future. Only the reasons will change.
3. As all kids are fortunatelly different, then it is normal, that at schools there are pupils who are leaders and on worst case the bullying persons and then those ordinary kids and then those who are wussies (meant here as neutral term).
4. I was between the wussie and an ordinary boy. Of course i was ridiculed from time to time, specially when around 10-14 age. I was not the strongest one, not the weakest either. Mostly i tried to fight back with words. With estonians it worked.
5. Against russians only fist worked. Thankfully, i had very few cases. I was also kind of cowardish i.e i tried not be outside near the secondary(high) school which was in a district full of russians and i tried to take bus back to home as early as possible.
6. As a parent i try to teach my daughter to have a yakuza henchman behave-a-like attitude
should somebody try to harass her. And i try to teach, that it is better to somebody like Christine Breiner than somebody from "American Idol", "Osbournes", "Jersey Shore" etc. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.7. I have tried my best to teach "you must help the weaker person".
8. Unfortunatelly, the parents of the bullying pupil almost always tell "my child is angel, he/she will never hurt somebody".
OK, i do not type more, because daughter wants to outside to walk
LogGrad98
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I got bullied for real between 9 and 11 years old. We talked to the schools, my dad talked to one kid's dad, and nothing changed. I got beat up, they took my school books and threw them on top of the school, they slashed the tires on my bike, then one kid stole my bike entirely and I never got it back, even though I saw him riding it, etc. Then 2 things happened: 1) I went through a growth spurt at around age 12, and ended up at about 6'2" before I turned 13, and 2) I started martial arts, among other sports in school. I took to the martial arts pretty quickly, found out I was pretty strong naturally, and I could hit pretty hard and improved on that with technique. And I was fortunate that, even though I was taking a traditional korean martial art focused on kicks and weapons and flashy but generally useless spins and jumps and stuff, my teacher focused on real-world fighting and techniques, including grappling and close-quarters striking, so it became pretty effective. I confronted one of my bullies after that first summer in martial arts, after about 6 months of classes and rising up 3 belts, and when I was now taller than him (he was 2 years older than me), because he wouldn't leave me alone, and we had a brief "fight" with his friends telling him to kill me, and me fending off anything he tried until I had an opening, hit him straight on with a good line of sight, and him moving toward me, and broke his nose and gave him 2 gnarly black eyes (and bruised 2 of my fingers bad enough I couldn't bend them right for a month), and then he left me alone, as well as his friends. The other guy that was bullying me, I ran into at my martial arts studio. I had been going to the 6:00 pm class and it turns out he attended the same studio but he went at 9:00 pm. I went to the late class once and he was there. We sparred that night and I popped him a few times pretty hard, then I caught him with a straight front kick right in the chin and he dropped, and it broke a tooth. He left me alone too.
I got lucky I found a way out, because before that I was at a loss what to do about it and I was beginning to withdraw, and afterward I made it a point to try to stick up for the bullied kids whenever I could. lauriandres is right though, this is one thing that will be part of the human condition forever, just the form will change. In my day it wasn't quite like A Christmas Story, but not too far off that, mostly making fun of my glasses, or that I was a pudgy child, with pushing and shoving, taking my backpack at school, knocking over my lunch tray, or even beating me up, **** like that. Today it is far more centered on words and exposure in a much more open and wide-spread sphere, and kids who would have likely been bullied can be more likely to be a bully on the internet, and groups are more likely to form. And in my case it was only viewed by whoever was around at the time, so a dozen kids at most usually. Now it can be broadcast to your entire social sphere, and repeated incessantly, which makes it more pervasive and devastating. And you can't just confront the ******* and punch him once to end it, as they are not around when it is happening, and often now other join in, spurred on by the mob mentality and the perceived anonymity of it all. It is far worse today, imo.
I feel for the kid and the family. I cannot imagine how I would have handled this, and I can see why suicides over this kind of bullying are a rising thing. Yet another reason I feel social media is evil and nothing but destructive on the whole, especially considering all the other negatives (addiction, isolation, negative ads, negative click bait, etc., etc.).
I got lucky I found a way out, because before that I was at a loss what to do about it and I was beginning to withdraw, and afterward I made it a point to try to stick up for the bullied kids whenever I could. lauriandres is right though, this is one thing that will be part of the human condition forever, just the form will change. In my day it wasn't quite like A Christmas Story, but not too far off that, mostly making fun of my glasses, or that I was a pudgy child, with pushing and shoving, taking my backpack at school, knocking over my lunch tray, or even beating me up, **** like that. Today it is far more centered on words and exposure in a much more open and wide-spread sphere, and kids who would have likely been bullied can be more likely to be a bully on the internet, and groups are more likely to form. And in my case it was only viewed by whoever was around at the time, so a dozen kids at most usually. Now it can be broadcast to your entire social sphere, and repeated incessantly, which makes it more pervasive and devastating. And you can't just confront the ******* and punch him once to end it, as they are not around when it is happening, and often now other join in, spurred on by the mob mentality and the perceived anonymity of it all. It is far worse today, imo.
I feel for the kid and the family. I cannot imagine how I would have handled this, and I can see why suicides over this kind of bullying are a rising thing. Yet another reason I feel social media is evil and nothing but destructive on the whole, especially considering all the other negatives (addiction, isolation, negative ads, negative click bait, etc., etc.).
Miggs
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I’m very sorry, HH. My brother, who committed suicide a little over ten years ago, was, I think, bullied some when he was younger. Not sure about high school but in middle school and before some. And my mother said he was always very serious from a young age. Didn’t smile much. Which is funny because he did, and had movie star qualities, at an older age. Idk. I worry about it too with my own children. It runs in the family. So I’m very sorry about your daughter. I think all you can do is support, love and raise her to the best of your ability. Not sure how she is with social media but that **** is the worst. I will literally fight tooth and nail for our children not to have cell phones until they are at least a little older—8th or 9th grade—and that they have no social media accounts. We already have a large group of parents that is relatively close and talk to one another and I think should be able to stay on top of that ****.
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Thanks man. She's doing better... its something we have to be mindful of and try not to get so busy that we don't check for the signs. Luckily she is great at letting us know when she is sad. Even though sometimes she can't quite grasp why she is sad. She has outlets and the bullying has been more of the "regular" variety. She had a long time friend that got to middle school and just decided she was too cool for her. Its ironic because when they became friends (at 2 years old) her friend could barely speak to other kids she was so painfully shy. They were almost like sisters... so that kinda started the tailspin. She has made new friends that are so much better for her... every few weeks she breaks down... its usually because someone called her fat or teased her about her makeup/clothes or the old friend did something purposefully hurtful. Its normal stuff but I have hears so many stories like your brother that I wasn't ****ing around with it. She is dramatic and emotional... so sometimes its hard to vet what is real and what is just her being a pre-teen. We have her in therapy and we make sure we are extremely patient with her and check in as much as possible.
Social media is 100% a no... may not let them do it ever. I can't imagine having her out there with her insecurities and the ****** people on there. Not happening.
Sorry to hear about your brother and thanks for sharing. Its all too common and its just devastating.
Miggs
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I got bullied a little when a I was freshman in high school. I was small—5’1”, 98 pounds. Went to a high school that was about half black. Decent amount Hispanic. It didn’t bother me. I knew I’d grow—I’m 6’2” now. I knew I’d do well academically, go to college, have a real career. And that many of the knuckleheads would be stuck in the same ******** of a town. So the bullying, and it was fairly minimal, didn’t bother me much. I sort of laughed about it a little tbh; it was harmless and sort of a rite of passage.
Now, it’s just girls being cold twats, trying to destroy other girl’s lives. It can be tough I’m sure.
Usually, with my students who come to me, I bluntly but casually tell them, “Don’t stress. Kids say stupid ****. They can’t help it. In four years, you’ll never see them again.” Now, obviously kids who seem more than just a bit upset who come to are sent by me to their counselor. Thankfully, our school does not have much bullying. I think there’s a sort of humbled quality to the kids since they’re impoverished. 95% are on free or reduced lunch.
Anyway, all this is a large part of why I want to retire in 6+ years. I’ll have my 25 years in just as my oldest is hitting high school. Life is crazy and I have just three kids. You have four iirc. bigb is the poster child for this and deserves a Purple Heart or something. But personally, I’d like to take a step back, collect my pension, maybe work 15 hours a week while the kids are at school, to supplement the income, and most importantly be there for them in all ways in a more calming environment.
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Handlogten's Heros
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Yeah the girls are different. The perspective thing is true but its tough because she can't see past next week at times. We are trying our best to help her develop more toughness and facilitate an attitude of "who the hell cares what so and so thinks". Its just a struggle. I'd say our struggles are very mild compared to what other parents and kids deal with... its just such a helpless feeling at times.