What's new
By:

How good or bad is Enes Kanter. Really.

AKMVP said:
Sorry but this is moronic statement - you training 12 guys from this forum would lose to any Eurocup tam by 120 pts. Rytas just played CSKA ( arguably best team in Europe now) in VTB league in Moscow and lost only in 4th quarter by 13pts. Those Eurocup teams played in Euroleague at some point and only due to politics are out of it. Rytas was in top 16 in Euroleague last year, so why they were removed from it? Simple thing is ULEB wants to have more teams from rich basketball countries like Spain, Greece, Italy and Turkey to get more money from endorsements and thats why you have some weak teams in Euroleague and strong teams in Eurocup. It is more politics then sports sometimes.
Click to expand...

Basically Rytas wasn't good enough because they were beaten by the Turkish team Galatasaray in qualification round, and there was no matter of politics here, it was just basketball.
Euroleague has some standards for teams, and some teams directly go there, they have contract with the organization, some teams go there depending on their performance in their league, and Rytas basically didn't meet the requirements to be qualified directly this year. It is nonsense to show them like a very important team. I wonder when they lost CSKA by 13 pts? Not right now for sure. And do you expect every team to be beaten by CSKA by 50 margin?

You don't have strong arguments and you talk nonsense. There are some weak teams in euroleague but strong teams in eurocup? interesting, i guess it is because there are more eastern european teams in eurocup than euroleague.

If it was all about politics, Turkish Airlines wouldn't have won the name rights of any european organization.
 
AKMVP said:
Motiejunas could not even make Lithuanian national team this year. He is very talented but his work ethic is poor and he is like poor man's Bargnani - soft 7 footer who plays on perimeter. If he will start banging inside more and develop some post game then he could be something... And remember he is already 21 year old, thats why he was drafted later then 19 year olds.
Click to expand...

We will see that in 2-3 years
 
  • Like
Reactions: MVP
sepanol said:
Basically Rytas wasn't good enough because they were beaten by the Turkish team Galatasaray in qualification round, and there was no matter of politics here, it was just basketball.
Euroleague has some standards for teams, and some teams directly go there, they have contract with the organization, some teams go there depending on their performance in their league, and Rytas basically didn't meet the requirements to be qualified directly this year. It is nonsense to show them like a very important team. I wonder when they lost CSKA by 13 pts? Not right now for sure. And do you expect every team to be beaten by CSKA by 50 margin?

You don't have strong arguments and you talk nonsense. There are some weak teams in euroleague but strong teams in eurocup? interesting, i guess it is because there are more eastern european teams in eurocup than euroleague.

If it was all about politics, Turkish Airlines wouldn't have won the name rights of any european organization.
Click to expand...

So why then teams who did not made top 16 last year are still in Euroleague without having to go through qualigying? And to let 1 game decide which team is going to it or not is kind of BS IMHO. Make them play twice at least. Better system would be that top 16 teams stay there every year and those who did not make it play in some kind of qualifying tourney vs strongest teams from Eurocup. Same like in any domestic leagues. Weakest teams go to b division and winners of B division go to A. Very simple.
 
AKMVP said:
So why then teams who did not made top 16 last year are still in Euroleague without having to go through qualigying? And to let 1 game decide which team is going to it or not is kind of BS IMHO. Make them play twice at least. Better system would be that top 16 teams stay there every year and those who did not make it play in some kind of qualifying tourney vs strongest teams from Eurocup. Same like in any domestic leagues. Weakest teams go to b division and winners of B division go to A. Very simple.
Click to expand...

You decided Rytas is so good , with one game, that they were beaten to CSKA by 13. What a stupid hypothesis is that. Btw Rytas lost to Galatasaray in their home court.
So basically, they didn't deserve to be there this year.

The better teams are already qualified to last 16 and there is a much better competition then, but it is the organizations right to bring some diversity, to give credit to teams who were successful in their leagues the year before to encourage more teams. Other ways, only couple of rich teams would be competing there and it would be a monotonous competition. Right now they mix the essential teams with the teams who are successful in the last year in their league.

What you are saying is like , Let Lakers, Boston, Miami, San Antonio play in league A every year, and the others should compete with eachother in league B. That's nonsense.
 
MK11 said:
OK, fair question for giving a try to answer.

First of all we really don't know what was their form and willing situation about a strength endurance test in draft tests.
Which one did care, which one have really trained on purpose etc. So I am not for saying anything about someone's strength just base on a bench press test.

Even if I was for...
The max strength and repetition are different things. Both of them can be increased in some limits with training. Repetition is more about endurance. As far as I know bench press test is about 190 lbs. At least I am sure it's not more than 200 lbs.

In my opinion the most important thing to call someone strong is his natural strength. Enes has that and his structure and his muscles can carry more of it.

Strength endurance also requires regular training on purpose. I could manage 75 good form push ups and 17 full chin ups in a row this late summer. Last week I tried and couldn't manage 40 and 10 of them in a row.

And now let me tell an interesting thing about this. I played basketball as an undersized sg a few years but my main talent was about soccer. I started to play it about age 5, and I played it more than 20 years regularly(half of it was semi-professional). I've seen a lot of very strong guys(a lot stronger than me) who can't beat me in push ups, bench presses and chinups. There were many bulls who barely can do 20 regular pushups. But most of those bulls were able to beat me in arm wrestling(I am not a bad arm wrestler by the way). And I always knew that if they were trained on strength endurance
they would do push ups etc just many as I could do. Because strength endurance limits are not variable as much as max strength or strength capacity.

Now about Enes. With true training in purpose of max amount of bench pressing, he would do just fine as much as any pro athlete do. And with true training in purpose of max strength, he can twirl a package of three Jimmer Fredette in air three times and throw it 30 feet away. And you know what, Jimmer can't do that! Because max strength limits are way more variable to the person than strength endurance limits are.

All I want now for Enes is him being in a true training way in purpose of good basketball.
Click to expand...

The differences between those two comparisons are that 1. Your comparison of strength is that of lifting your own body weight (pushups, pull ups etc) where a gigantic man would need to lift 250 lbs while a pipsqueak would need to muster the strength to lift 140 pounds. This is quite different compared to the bench press as two different people, (whom might I add weighed drastically different amounts) are lifting the same amount of weight.

2.) both pushups and pull ups as well as the bench press are drastically biased by wingspan. Long wingspan makes it exponentially harder to complete pushups and pull ups as one has to travel much farther to achieve a full repetition. This wingspan issue biases both tests, but far more with pull ups than the other two.

The fact that jimbo was able to lift more than kanter, being almost a full foot shorter and 60 pounds lighter is a combination of jimmer's actual impressive strength matched with a shorter wingspan and fully developed man body.

That being said, I'm still not convinced kanter will be anything more than average when compared to the world class athletes of the NBA, both in stature and in talent.
 
sepanol said:
You decided Rytas is so good , with one game, that they were beaten to CSKA by 13. What a stupid hypothesis is that. Btw Rytas lost to Galatasaray in their home court.
So basically, they didn't deserve to be there this year.
Click to expand...

You missing the point. Rytas last year was in top 16. And still was forced to go through gualifying games where they lost one game and were kicked out of Euroleague. While there were some teams who did not make to top 16 and did not need to go through qualifying. That is very unfair and usportsmanlike system. Means some teams can suck as much as I can and they are guaranteed place in top league no matter their results. Stupid to me thats it.
 
sepanol said:
Y

What you are saying is like , Let Lakers, Boston, Miami, San Antonio play in league A every year, and the others should compete with eachother in league B. That's nonsense.
Click to expand...

I did not say that, why are you creating some kind of BS? You can;t compare NBA and Euroleague structures. NBA is different type of league, worst teams get best chances at improving through draft so there is no relegation to B league or anything like that. It would not simply work in USA. Euroleague does not draft players, it is all about rich clubs, there is not even such thing as salary cap or luxury tax, so that's why CSKA which failed to make to top 16 last year can buy bunch of great players and win title next year - unfair, but what you can do about it? If it would be based on results they would be playing in Eurocup this year.
 
jope said:
The differences between those two comparisons are that 1. Your comparison of strength is that of lifting your own body weight (pushups, pull ups etc) where a gigantic man would need to lift 250 lbs while a pipsqueak would need to muster the strength to lift 140 pounds. This is quite different compared to the bench press as two different people, (whom might I add weighed drastically different amounts) are lifting the same amount of weight.

2.) both pushups and pull ups as well as the bench press are drastically biased by wingspan. Long wingspan makes it exponentially harder to complete pushups and pull ups as one has to travel much farther to achieve a full repetition. This wingspan issue biases both tests, but far more with pull ups than the other two.

The fact that jimbo was able to lift more than kanter, being almost a full foot shorter and 60 pounds lighter is a combination of jimmer's actual impressive strength matched with a shorter wingspan and fully developed man body.

That being said, I'm still not convinced kanter will be anything more than average when compared to the world class athletes of the NBA, both in stature and in talent.
Click to expand...


Your sayings are comletely true yet another important and different factors of a complete body-fitness science. It is not true to compare two very different players strength wise in the first place though. Especially base on a one-time strength endurance test. By the way I found out the weigth of the test. It is 185 lbs. Imho I used to manage that 10 times in a row a few years back without any special training(Your wingspan theory occurs here). And I am pretty sure I can do 15 after some workout weeks. That doesn't mean I am stronger than Enes or another pro athlete of the NBA. Anyway I would like to go into details but it is very tiring for me to write in english and have no time at all.

But on the other hand I am convinced Enes is already more than average for his age, size and position. If he keeps working hard he will surprise lots of fans.
 
Kanter's strength comes from his lower body, which would explain his low center of gravity.
Has anyone checked out his butt recently?
 
Verlin said:
And kanter is who? For the sake of our future I hope he pans out. JV was not the answer either for the idiot running around a jazz forum pimping him. I think knight was the best pg prospect for the next few years. He filled a need and I have a feeling we will be regretting the decision down the line. Not because kanter will blow, just that we will be looking for a pg for the next 5 years.
Click to expand...
I agree. But KOC went for the home run. If Kanter and Favors develop into near all-stars and anchor the front line, teams will have a tough time matching up against the Jazz. Championships can be won without a top-10 PG. Knight was a good prospect, but Kanter can be a game changer. The Jazz have some players and multiple picks to offer for a PG. The next year could offer some decent opportunities with teams trying to clear space to bid on CP3, Deron and Howard. Jazz have the expiring contracts of Okur and CJ to offer. Maybe they can get a good young PG if they also take on a "bad" contract.
 
hey guys, i salute you with love from the homeland of memo/ enes...

normally i like to act like an pervert, just watch you people debates and stuff.. but when it comes to kanter, there is just too many and too little information in the same time.. so i decided too share my humble opinions on him..

unlike the Lithuanian people on jv, in turkey there is no homerism on enes.. reasons ? first off all (yeah kanter style) sport is football ( no its football), secondly we dont have an arvidas sabonis so enes is not a heir to his throne and third just when his time to shine he decided to take his talent to america and left the one of the biggest club in turkey (fenerbahçe ülker) ( and they screwed the kid really bad) (which is good for you )

when he came for the national team this summer. we all got excited and have some concerns.. we knew he is something special but almost a 1,5 year he didn't play... most of the basketball writers in country criticised him all the time after he suspended.. they said, even the ex- national head coach (who is a kind a legend in europe) bogdan tanjevic told him not the go america, play euroleague ( competition and tactical level is much much more elite)(and olympiakos offered 2 mil./ year contract ) , get mature and then go nba.. but he chosed to came america, deal with the cultural and language problems, play ncaa (because its more nba way)... so where was i ,yeah he came for the national team... in the friendly games he totally failed.. vey very excited and immature, lacks of tactical knowledge ( especially on defence ).. we all bummed out fot the kid, talking about how unlucky he is, cursed the wheels of fortune and calipari as well.. and then the actual competion began..even though he still have too many holes to fill his wall, enes was the best of his team and his progress and adoptation was really impressive.. for his age, and even not played almost 2 years his post game is way too advance. use his whole body too unbalanced the guy, trapped him with a quick fake and boom.. and he is not have some one two post move.. and adapt his post game for the opponent (which is a good translate to nba), didn't have shoot to much, kind a looks insecure even he did good job.. screens he have a problem, definetly work on his quickness ( i know that turkey has a stupid head coach and very limited guard rotation, but still).. defence he can raise both hands in air ( which related to straight upper body strenght, jv couldnt do that), looks pretty solid on one on one defence. but when it comes to help defence ( oh boy :(( )

i knew that you guys suffer from big, white european fellas like koufos and fes, and i totally get that your concerns about how his game trasnlate to nba .. let me assure you one thing.. like i said before he have long way to go but enes most important weapon is his game iq.. kid is a one unlucky and hungry hard worker, quick learner with a nba ready body.. but you need to be patient about him.

one thing that you may not be noticed though.. when you get european bballer, you didn't expect to talk english like that, and enes is a positive fella. with the wwe story and all he seems like he knows the drill and how to roll.. but the truth is that he is not.. i've seen him speaking turkish, he is just a kid. needs to improve on that issue and memo is a one big chance for him on that issue.

both calipari and tim grover acknowledged the kid nba ready ( both body and skillwise) and today( https://t.co/8MPZBfI4 ) i leaned that chad ford said cant wait too see what enes kanter does, and he said that he is in kentuck the other day for north c - kent. game and one off the stuff in kentucky told ford he is one of the best players they've ever ever seen and he destroys marcus decousins in summer with some of other players (nazr muhammed etc.), they think he is special..

so we will wait and see what happens, just want to share my opinion, and this was probably the first and the last post.. sorry about my english by the way. take care guys
 
randall1269 said:
hey guys, i salute you with love from the homeland of memo/ enes...
Click to expand...




Hi randall1269, salutes from your fellow countryman. I have about 25 posts so I guess I can welcome you to the board.

Thanks for your opinion and insides about Enes. The only thing that I want to state from your post is that Enes being just a kid. I completely agree on this. He is aware of his talents and trying to seem cool. But when he is talking you just see he is just an excited kid who is trying to get a chance to prove himself. He will finally get it in a few weeks and I am pretty sure he will unintentially overtry to show himself in first weeks. I hope him to manage that first period of his nba carier. That is one of the points that Memo can help him out on the court and offcourt.

And also thanks for the audio...
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
Old news. UK has been pimping him since the draft. Hopefully it's more than just talk.
Click to expand...

While I agree that coaches help their players get recognized and want them to do well, you're making too light of it, imo.

Here's what I mean ... Calipari urged people to not overly worry about the 'attitude' problems of Cousins, that it's more immaturity than bad attitude. I would assume most here would agree Cousins is a very ggod player and will get better. Cal pimped Tyreke, Wall, and a couple others, but when asked about Daniel Orton he (not publicly) warned some franchises about his huge bust potential. He told some teams of Patterson's short-comings, he told a few teams that Knight will be good but not a sure-fire starter. He urged TJones to come back and work on his game and gain some maturity. He has been pretty real about his players, whether you agree or not.

I know, for a fact, that Calipari believes Enes will be a top-notch player in the NBA (agrees it will take a couple years). He could be wrong, but he's being sincere. I know, for a fact, that NBA personnel trust his opinions and it does him no good to lie to them about how he believes a player will transition.
 
PKM said:
While I agree that coaches help their players get recognized and want them to do well, you're making too light of it, imo.

Here's what I mean ... Calipari urged people to not overly worry about the 'attitude' problems of Cousins, that it's more immaturity than bad attitude. I would assume most here would agree Cousins is a very ggod player and will get better. Cal pimped Tyreke, Wall, and a couple others, but when asked about Daniel Orton he (not publicly) warned some franchises about his huge bust potential. He told some teams of Patterson's short-comings, he told a few teams that Knight will be good but not a sure-fire starter. He urged TJones to come back and work on his game and gain some maturity. He has been pretty real about his players, whether you agree or not.

I know, for a fact, that Calipari believes Enes will be a top-notch player in the NBA (agrees it will take a couple years). He could be wrong, but he's being sincere. I know, for a fact, that NBA personnel trust his opinions and it does him no good to lie to them about how he believes a player will transition.
Click to expand...

Calipari for President? :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top