How good or bad is Enes Kanter. Really.

[vslice02]

If you are playing the odds, he will most likely be something in between.

Agree. I think his ceiling is as a Kevin Willis-type 5 man - and I think in the present-day NBA that type of play from your center should make you estatic.

Biggest challenge this year will be getting acclimated to the speed of the game, may take a full season, probably could look ugly at times, but this board should know by now not to judge a rookie on his first few months. Not that every season isn't important, but 2012-13 is when we'll start to figure out if this guy can be a building block or not.

 

[Guitaro]

I wouldn't worry about this. Hoffa just wasn't agile and quick enough for the NBA. I believe Kanter has better athletic ability and will belong.

I agree. His footwork is much better. Plus, he's constantly working out. Gym rats usually always do pretty well in the league. Stockton, for example, is the best example of a gym rat who had success. Always playing, practicing, etc. I mean, how many different places have we heard he's been practicing and working out already this offseason? This dude is a workout machine. That bodes well for him.

 

[trigg3r]

Let's see him play before we declare him anything.

 

[Nate505]

As for the Kofus comparisons, I'll be stunned if in Kanter's first couple games we don't see a game where he's more aggressive that Kofus was during his entire tenure with the Jazz. Kofus played about as unaggressive as anyone I've ever seen.

 

[sepanol]

In general I think Jazz messed up by not taking Valanciunas. Kanter may turn out into reliable big man, getting something like 12pts/8 reb in his NBA career but in general nothing special. I think his potential in NBA is fairly limited due to lack of explosiveness and lift - unless he develops decent outside game and passing. But who knows, with so little game to judge about him he is a mystery, could be a bust or could surprise some people ( me including)

why don't you accept you are a patriotic lithuanian? (Actually i like lithuanians so don't take it wrong)

But the comparisons you make about Valanciunas-Kanter, Koufos-Kanter, are completely ridiculous. Valanciunas can be a good back up center in nba at best. He doesn't even have the strength to compete in nba right now. Kanter is a mystery, but Valanciunas not? You gotta be kidding me.

It seems somehow totally inrealistic that you are so high on Valanciunas while just bitching on Kanter pick. Thanks god KOC doesn't think like you, otherwise it would be the most stupid draft pick ever to get Valanciunas over Kanter.

 

[sepanol]

You're talking about the friendly, right?

Bro, you know how rusty Kanter was during the friendlies. If you didn't see a dramatic improvement between the friendlies and the actual games, you're crazy.

No not crazy, he just loves eastern european players too much, so he is mad we didn't pick Valanciunas over Kanter

 

[sepanol]

I think he won't be any worse than Boom Bitches...

Having said that... I don't see him being the next Dwight Howard, Dirk, and Pau Gasol that so many people have compared him to... Or what he has compared himself to...

Personally, I think he should be shooting for Luis Scola. A tough big man down low who eats up rebounds, will occasionally surprise you with a post move, and plays with a lot of energy.

Actually, in an interview in Turkey, he said that, the media manipulated his words here. He told that he said indeed, he likes the strength of Howard, shooting of Dirk and skills of Gasol, but he didn't say he is like them.

 

[NUMBERICA]

As for the Kofus comparisons, I'll be stunned if in Kanter's first couple games we don't see a game where he's more aggressive that Kofus was during his entire tenure with the Jazz. Kofus played about as unaggressive as anyone I've ever seen.

I actually liked Koufos and would disagree here. He was spastic, I thought he tried to play hard but maybe didn't really know how.

I think the biggest difference is Koufos never seemed to have good hands and his footwork/coordination wasn't good. We'll see some games where Kanter looks overmatched for sure, but I don't think we're going to see too many bobbled passes or rebounds and that's a damn big difference. Just for starters.

 

[sepanol]

Hayward had a proven resume to go on. Kanter has nothing but a handful of good garbage man performances at FIBA, and a really good All-Star game.

Valanciunas didn't even have those, except couple of pick n roll games he ended up scoring thanks to great passers. But basically it is enough for you to have a positive judgment about him

 

[MVP]

But the comparisons you make about Valanciunas-Kanter, Koufos-Kanter, are completely ridiculous. Valanciunas can be a good back up center in nba at best. He doesn't even have the strength to compete in nba right now. Kanter is a mystery, but Valanciunas not? You gotta be kidding me.

It seems somehow totally inrealistic that you are so high on Valanciunas while just bitching on Kanter pick. Thanks god KOC doesn't think like you, otherwise it would be the most stupid draft pick ever to get Valanciunas over Kanter.

Numerous NBA scouts and specialists were considering Valanciunas as player with highest ceiling in all draft and certainly the best big men ( Hollinger, Aldridge, Givony, Bucher, etc )... so I am not ridiculous, unless you want to call respected NBA experts ridiculous as well. JV has longer wingspan and is taller then Kanter, plus he is better at pick and roll, better passer and shot blocker, shots better FG and FT and he is a true center, plus he has more experience playing at high level ( he played with men all last year so there is lots of film to study while Kanter sat out all year - thats why Kanter is mystery and JV is not). His ceiling is unlimited, he could become NBA-all defensive player and even ALL-Star as not that many true centers are around anymore. Yes he does not have enough strength right now, but it is easily correctable thing with proper nutrition and weight lifting - and his frame gives hope that those 20 lbs he will add in 1-2 years pretty easily ( as he already added 15 lbs in last year). What he does not need to worry is his length - he already showed he can block easily Nowitzki, Kaman, Gasol, Noah without even jumping much. Kanter at this point has better low post game and is better rebounder, but as I said his ceiling is limited and in IMHO in 3 years Valanciunas will be so much better that it will be not even close...
I am not bitching on Kanter pick.. I accepted the fact that he is Jazzman and I will cheer for him but I have pretty realistic ( low ) expectations about his future in NBA and role with the Jazz. I will be very happy if he will surprise me and prove me wrong.

 

[MVP]

Valanciunas didn't even have those, except couple of pick n roll games he ended up scoring thanks to great passers. But basically it is enough for you to have a positive judgment about him

Come on.. do not fool yourself...JV just won FIBA U-19 world championship in July this year and was MVP of tourney dominating his peers from all over the world. And he played full season in Euroleague last year while Kanter was sitting out.

 

[sepanol]

Numerous NBA scouts and specialists were considering Valanciunas as player with highest ceiling in all draft and certainly the best big men ( Hollinger, Aldridge, Givony, Bucher, etc )... so I am not ridiculous, unless you want to call respected NBA experts ridiculous as well. JV has longer wingspan and is taller then Kanter, plus he is better at pick and roll, better passer and shot blocker, shots better FG and FT and he is a true center, plus he has more experience playing at high level ( he played with men all last year so there is lots of film to study while Kanter sat out all year - thats why Kanter is mystery and JV is not). His ceiling is unlimited, he could become NBA-all defensive player and even ALL-Star as not that many true centers are around anymore. Yes he does not have enough strength right now, but it is easily correctable thing with proper nutrition and weight lifting - and his frame gives hope that those 20 lbs he will add in 1-2 years pretty easily ( as he already added 15 lbs in last year). What he does not need to worry is his length - he already showed he can block easily Nowitzki, Kaman, Gasol, Noah without even jumping much. Kanter at this point has better low post game and is better rebounder, but as I said his ceiling is limited and in IMHO in 3 years Valanciunas will be so much better that it will be not even close...
I am not bitching on Kanter pick.. I accepted the fact that he is Jazzman and I will cheer for him but I have pretty realistic ( low ) expectations about his future in NBA and role with the Jazz. I will be very happy if he will surprise me and prove me wrong.

Which scouts told he has the highest ceiling? I never really heard that but if what you said is true, i am really curious why people consider them as scout, they can be baseball scouts maybe not basketball.

As i remember only one place considering Valanciunas better than Kanter, and that website rated Kanter ridiculously down.

Anyway we don't need to rely everything on scouts since we have our own opinions, at least i do. Valanciunas is not a good passer, just because he come off the bench and give his team life with his energy doesn't make him a potential superstar like you dream about. I don't know if you realized but majority of the points him made was due to great passers on the lithuanian team while on contrary, no one tried to play pick n roll with Kanter in turkey, so he just had to create all his points with his own talent and own effort, low post game and else.

I don't know if you also recognized but Valanciunas isn't really capable of anything while he has the ball in his hand back to basket. He may only make a weird turn and hook shot and pray if it will get in, but i didn't say basically anything specific in his offensive game. In defense, he has good wingspan and energy which gives him an advantage, but it is not easy to defend well in nba. You gotta bang with your opponent which i doubt he has the toughness to do that.

It is pretty obvious you are more of a eastern european players homer more than i am a turkish players homer, thats why all i can say is, you should really be happy if Valanciunas is gonna make better stats than 10ppg 8 rpg after 3 years. Because for me, considering him a limitless ceiling player is pretty ridiculous and completely inrealistic

 

[sepanol]

Come on.. do not fool yourself...JV just won FIBA U-19 world championship in July this year and was MVP of tourney dominating his peers from all over the world. And he played full season in Euroleague last year while Kanter was sitting out.

He plays in rytas who couldn't even make euroleague this year. Kanter was playing in euroleague when he was 16.
He won the mvp award in a tourney with completely inexperienced and raw youngsters. Kanter won mvp in tournaments where he basically played against more experienced and older players than him.
I don't understand how you justify him being such an amazing player given this data. I don't understand people who don't like Kanter because he is not proven and mystery if they love Valanciunas so much

 

[Nate505]

I actually liked Koufos and would disagree here. He was spastic, I thought he tried to play hard but maybe didn't really know how.

I think the biggest difference is Koufos never seemed to have good hands and his footwork/coordination wasn't good. We'll see some games where Kanter looks overmatched for sure, but I don't think we're going to see too many bobbled passes or rebounds and that's a damn big difference. Just for starters.

Maybe you're right. It's just my memory (admittedly a bit hazy) of him is him standing around, getting some cheap putbacks/dunks, but not really going at it in the paint. It's why I was stunned at his Boom Bitches moment because it really seemed to come out of nowhere for him. But I could have been confusing lack of talent for being a bull inside to a lack of effort.

 

[MK11]

Ok, first of all I am Turkish, plus I said that I'm a Enes homer in my first post on this board. So you can just ignore this post if you want to.

Here is my toughts. Believe it or not, I say Enes is special.

I've seen lots of big guys like Okur, Gasol bros, Dirk, Kaman, Robert Traylor aka tractor(RIP), Zaza, Gortat, Bargnani, Turiaf and tons of euro bigs and Enes from close distance(not on court). The thing is when you see Enes you just say wow and feel so weak(actually pathetic). I mean he is like made of stone. He is not extremely ripped and definetley not bigger than ones I've mentioned before but he just looks very very strong. I doubt he has got any soft tissue in his body including his internal organs. His massive body can produce great power along with his very high motor, very high velocity and agility for his size. And I can't imagine his strenght a few seasons later from now, Nba is the best place to gain more mass and strenght imo.

And the actual amazing thing about him is not his rare body but his talents. When you have a shooting touch as soft as turkish delight with those creepy hands then I say you are special. And I say you are special when you bang and figth like crazy and make your opponents bones scream in rebounding and positioning but also are able to do smooth turnarounds, all kind of hooks, effective up and unders, fakes, quality layups, finger rolls, putbacks and tip-ins, mid range jumpers and even threes. I've seen all this moves by him in many occasions. Of course he is not perfect in all those moves but he is well above average to perfect and very effective. Another rare thing is that he has always had great stamina, you know power and stamina don't get along well most of the time. I think there is no reason to be pessimistic about his future considering all these aspects of his game with his age(still not 20) and his wonderfull workh ethic. And I believe he is a good learner too.

Now let me be honest about his weaknesses. Actually he is not really weak in these things but he should be a lot better in these aspects of the game to be a big player in NBA.

1) Help defense : He has all the tools to be a very good help defender.

2) Passing : Especially against double team defense he should be better at passing.

3) Screening : Considering his size and agility he'd be better be one of the bests in the league.

4) Standing Vertical and Standing Dunk : He can jump but not while just standing. There won't be easy layups in NBA.

5) Pick and Roll Offense : He seems somewhat late to roll inside.

6) Pick and Pop : Actually I believe he will be very good at this naturally. But he needs a little bit playing time with Devin Harris. Dwill would be great by the way.

7) Left Hand : Definetely needs to work on this.

8) Blocking : This is probably his only real weakness. But I am hopeful because he has tremendous timing in rebounding and I believe timing is a key factor in blocking.

9) Self-confidence : Actually he may need to reduce his self-confidence a bit. I just don't want him to loose his work ethic.

10) Free Throws : He is above average free throw shooter for a big man. But it would be perfect if he increase his percentage to eighties because he will draw tons of fouls.

11) Dribbling : This would be an extra asset to him but also would be very valuable. He has the range to pump fake and go to an easy layup or dunk or draw a foul. Imo even Memo did that occasionally and was effective(was very weird though).

Ok, these are my toughts about him and his game. I believe he is a special player and can be an allstar or even a superstar.

Buuuuuttt, I just believe... Unfortunately, and like everyone else, I really don't know what happens in short and long term.

I am just one of those guys who prefers being positive and hopeful.

Just as a guess I can say he will be good from the midseason and finish the season with 5-7 rbs, 8-14 pts for about 14-20 minutes per game. Then once he begins to feel the NBA and finds his game he will dramatically increase his numbers and his game.

 

[Fishsticks]

It seems somehow totally inrealistic that you are so high on Valanciunas while just bitching on Kanter pick. Thanks god KOC doesn't think like you, otherwise it would be the most stupid draft pick ever to get Valanciunas over Kanter.

Most stupid draft pick was to take kanter over knight.

 

[Fishsticks]

Ok, first of all I am Turkish, plus I said that I'm a Enes homer in my first post on this board. So you can just ignore this post if you want to.

Here is my toughts. Believe it or not, I say Enes is special.

I've seen lots of big guys like Okur, Gasol bros, Dirk, Kaman, Robert Traylor aka tractor(RIP), Zaza, Gortat, Bargnani, Turiaf and tons of euro bigs and Enes from close distance(not on court). The thing is when you see Enes you just say wow and feel so weak(actually pathetic). I mean he is like made of stone. He is not extremely ripped and definetley not bigger than ones I've mentioned before but he just looks very very strong. I doubt he has got any soft tissue in his body including his internal organs. His massive body can produce great power along with his very high motor, very high velocity and agility for his size. And I can't imagine his strenght a few seasons later from now, Nba is the best place to gain more mass and strenght imo.

And the actual amazing thing about him is not his rare body but his talents. When you have a shooting touch as soft as turkish delight with those creepy hands then I say you are special..

Good post....but REALLY liked this.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Good post....but REALLY liked this.

eek

 

[MVP]

Which scouts told he has the highest ceiling? I never really heard that but if what you said is true, i am really curious why people consider them as scout, they can be baseball scouts maybe not basketball.

As i remember only one place considering Valanciunas better than Kanter, and that website rated Kanter ridiculously down.

Anyway we don't need to rely everything on scouts since we have our own opinions, at least i do. Valanciunas is not a good passer, just because he come off the bench and give his team life with his energy doesn't make him a potential superstar like you dream about. I don't know if you realized but majority of the points him made was due to great passers on the lithuanian team while on contrary, no one tried to play pick n roll with Kanter in turkey, so he just had to create all his points with his own talent and own effort, low post game and else.

I don't know if you also recognized but Valanciunas isn't really capable of anything while he has the ball in his hand back to basket. He may only make a weird turn and hook shot and pray if it will get in, but i didn't say basically anything specific in his offensive game.

Ok, so you do not know who Hollinger or Aldridge is? Fine, we do not need to argue about that then. Funny thing is you say JV can't do anything without passes from his teammates... See this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DkzWofJkZk and rethink what you said ( he has great pump fake, jump hook and gets to the free throw line as well vs one of the top 10 NBA center Kaman ). And JV is three times better passer then Kanter, do not even start on that.

Thing about pick and roll - Kanter is not good at setting screens and not good at understanding spacing and rolling to the basket, thats why you do not see pick and roll with Kanter. He is low post, isolation type player who has no pick and roll game. Kind of like big Al, but worse.

 

[Dr. Jones]

AKMVP: I've asked this before, but whether Kanter turns out to be a great pick or a bad pick, what's your purpose in coming to a Jazz site pimping Jonas and slamming Kanter ... when Kanter plays for 'our' team.

Go pimp him to 'his' team??