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I want the Jazz to lose.

cctrackstar

cctrackstar

Well-Known Member
No, not games, i want them to lose everything. their fanbase, the players they draft, their coach. everything. I've been alive a long time, and i find that honesty is top three most important things in life and tanking reeks of dishonesty. the fact that they can't outright declare it publicly, the fact that the coach talks about effort and trying at the same time as a third of the team is out for mysterious injuries, it's lying. lies. mamma told me not to lie. a bunch of times. these are multi million dollar contracts these guys are playing for, and they are either lying or being lied to. in the business world that's called fraud.

ok, i get it, that's the way the whole nba works, but again, they can't admit it because they would get reprimanded by the league, so the teams are corrupt, not the league. so i feel the same way about all of the teams that do it. yup, i'm not only am i not a jazz fan, i'm not an nba fan any more. i still like a few select players, but i doubt they remain on the team, whether they leave because the team sucks or because they are traded for other player that will leave the team because they suck.

i've said it before, i'd rather root for a decent team that has players who came her legitimately and want to be here than an imaginary finals team that we got by lying to the entire fanbase and cheating the system.
 
cctrackstar said:
No, not games, i want them to lose everything. their fanbase, the players they draft, their coach. everything. I've been alive a long time, and i find that honesty is top three most important things in life and tanking reeks of dishonesty. the fact that they can't outright declare it publicly, the fact that the coach talks about effort and trying at the same time as a third of the team is out for mysterious injuries, it's lying. lies. mamma told me not to lie. a bunch of times. these are multi million dollar contracts these guys are playing for, and they are either lying or being lied to. in the business world that's called fraud.

ok, i get it, that's the way the whole nba works, but again, they can't admit it because they would get reprimanded by the league, so the teams are corrupt, not the league. so i feel the same way about all of the teams that do it. yup, i'm not only am i not a jazz fan, i'm not an nba fan any more. i still like a few select players, but i doubt they remain on the team, whether they leave because the team sucks or because they are traded for other player that will leave the team because they suck.

i've said it before, i'd rather root for a decent team that has players who came her legitimately and want to be here than an imaginary finals team that we got by lying to the entire fanbase and cheating the system.
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Great post. Good to see someone still cares about basketball.
 
I just filled my hankie full of snot as I wept with you, bro. I also wish I lived in an Honest Basketball Nirvana. :`(
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Great post. Good to see someone still cares about basketball.
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Anyone that wants the jazz to win meaningless games wants to tank the Jazz future and cares nothing for titles or actually being great. Wanting losses shows fandom. Wanting wins shows how much a fair weathered fan you are and how little you care being entertained as the only care you have.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Anyone that wants the jazz to win meaningless games wants to tank the Jazz future and cares nothing for titles or actually being great.
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Professional basketball is meaningless at its very core. How is winning the championship changes any live in a meaningful way? You just arbitrarily assign great value to it, that's all.

However, trying to win every game does have deep meaning: always trying to do your best, giving it all, coming together as a group, constantly striving to improve and correct your mistakes from the previous game.. Trying to lose on purpose opens the door for a whole set of exciting possibilities. If the games are meaningful why should you get out of bed on the road and go to the practice and then play? Let just sleep in late, then go to a party and let the 2-way people to do the meaningful game! Or, even better, lets gamble as a team on the exact result for a meaningful game and then deliver it! The NBA is quickly becoming another professional wrestling.
 
I mean it does suck. Most of us were told cheaters never prosper as well... but the real world is full of prosperous cheaters. Its a **** system but not participating in it only hurts a team. So you can have your moral ground play in spot if you want but don't cry that we can't quite seem to compete with some other franchises that get all the luck.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Anyone that wants the jazz to win meaningless games wants to tank the Jazz future and cares nothing for titles or actually being great.
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If titles and greatness were my primary concern, I'd have become a Lakers fan when I was 11 instead of a Jazz fan.

Even better, I wouldn't be a fan on any team per se. I'd just cheer for whoever's that year's Vegas favourite.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean it does suck. Most of us were told cheaters never prosper as well... but the real world is full of prosperous cheaters. Its a **** system but not participating in it only hurts a team. So you can have your moral ground play in spot if you want but don't cry that we can't quite seem to compete with some other franchises that get all the luck.
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Someone always has the option of becoming disappointed with something they used to love, and then subtracting it from their list of loves. They could do this without crying on a message board, too. It's just entertainment/basketball.
 
The Rockets tanked 4 straight seasons, were rewarded with 4 straight top-4 picks and are now on the come-up. The NBA moves in cycles. You have to be bad in order to be good....unless you happen to draft All Stars with later draft picks. But even in that scenario, which the previous Jazz achieved, a team needs MVP-caliber talent in order to break through.
 
It's not the losing of games that I mind. True, we've been spoiled as Jazz fans. The past 40 years, the team has won fewer than 30 games exactly twice. I would wager there isn't another team in the league who can say that. 31 out of the last 40 years the Jazz have made the playoffs, and in 7 of the other 9, the team was in the hunt for a playoff spot this time of year. Sure, we've been spoiled a little. We're not used to season such as this one.

My issue is not with losing games or losing seasons. A few years ago, in a span of months, we traded away the entire starting 5 that had the best RS record in the league, along with a few other important players. Obviously, we were going to suck and I both understand why we were going to suck and why we had to pull that trigger. The situation as it stood in the summer of 2022 was untenable. I didn't like it and I wish it didn't play out that way, but I completely understand why it had to be done.

There are 30 teams in the league and because of the nature of things, someone has to finish last. And because the distribution isn't random, the team finishing last isn't going to win 30-35 games. They are going to win 20, if that many. Again, that's all fine. Teams suck sometimes. That's also how the draft is supposed to work. You suck, you win very few games because you suck, you get a better young player to help you win more games. I'm okay with that basic premise. What I absolutely cannot stand is that for the past 3 seasons, that has all apparently not been enough.

We have clearly, clearly been better than the bottom 10 teams in the league over the past three years. The players we got in trades have been better than advertised, some young players contributed here and there, vets tend to find a way to help you win, etc. It really doesn't matter why we were better than many people(including the FO) hoped. We just have been, and it just leaves an incredibly foul taste in my mouth that this is taken as a bad thing and the FO are trying to fight this.

Both that first year and the second year, the team came out of the gates much better than anyone expected. That first year we were 31-31 at the end of February. Last year, we were 26-26 at te beginning of February. Both times, the FO freaked out that we were actually decent and decided we had to lose every game going forward for the privilege and honour of drafting Cody Williams and Taylor Hendricks. This year, they were a little more proactive, but even then, there have been times when it looked like the team might be coming together a little bit, and immediately, action is taken. Healthy players sit, Collier and Williams get "development" minutes and start closing games, and we suck again.

This is what I hate. If we're bad, we're bad. Let them team play and if the guys are so bad that we win 15 games, so be it. But don't assemble a 30-win team and then do everything in your power during the season and during individual games to make them win 15. That's bullsh*t. That's professional wrestling at this point.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The Rockets tanked 4 straight seasons, were rewarded with 4 straight top-4 picks and are now on the come-up. The NBA moves in cycles. You have to be bad in order to be good....unless you happen to draft All Stars with later draft picks. But even in that scenario, which the previous Jazz achieved, a team needs MVP-caliber talent in order to break through.
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This. Our mistake was not tanking harder the previous two seasons. Glad we're finally tanking properly this season.
 
It feels like some people need to be reminded that a proper tank involves more than just losing games. It also involves getting your contracts lined up to expire at the right times and in the right amounts. Being a good team is about more than just acquiring talent. It's also about having the ability to control the retention of talent and/or trade talent in the right combos in order to add to the team.

In other words, a proper tank isn't as easy as "lose games."

And can we just avoid moralizing this issue, please? If you're looking for honor, then, frrrrreal, go do something else with your time. Tanking dynamics just happen to be a consequence of the way the sport and the game is structured right now. I don't like it, but there aren't any easy fixes.

And it's just entertainment. Nothing more pathetic than expecting your entertainment to also feed your virtue-craving soul.
 
It looks like people keep confusing tanking with rebuilds. Rebuild means trading away your veterans, drafting a bunch of young players and letting them compete as hard as they can. Tanking, on the other hand, means retaining a bunch of good players but deliberately severely limiting their minutes or inventing the injuries in order to win way less games than the players are capable of.

Rebuilding builds the team culture and camaraderie, while young players going through the growing pain learn to respect their coach and GM. Conversely, tanking creates toxic environment when vets dislike their young teammates and coaches because their minutes and market value are getting suppressed, while young players adopt the lackadaisical approach to games... and nobody trusts their obviously lying coaches and GM. Oh, and it forces fans to desperately root against their own team.
 
First of all, I'm not a championship or bust guy. I'd love for the Jazz to win a Chip, but I would be happy if they just had a well put together group of players that was easy to cheer for.

I don't personally mind the tanking process in the aspect of letting young guys get experience and have recently started to really enjoy getting in to the draft. It does feel wrong and bad to sit healthy players in order to purposefully lose. I don't like feeling conflicted when we win. I don't like when other teams have tanked in the past and it's embarrassing to me to cheer for a team that is trying to lose. Beyond being conflicted, I don't personally see it as morally wrong, just as a current aspect of the game that is very difficult to fix. It's a logical thing to do under the current rules.

I wish there was a better process for adding talent to your team outside of the draft, especially for small market teams. I've thought of and have heard of many different alternatives, but they all have their pros and cons. I often hear fans propose ways to eliminate tanking that sound good on the surface, but when you spend a minute to think about it, would actually be much worse.
 
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