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If the Jazz Lose Hill in free agency...

I think we keep him... Its a matter of price... it will be expensive. Be prepared.
 
If we hadn't ever traded for Hill, we'd be staring at the 7th seed, a sweep by the Spurs, and Hayward leaving.

For how much better Hill makes us, paying him is worth it, as it'll also likely ensure Hayward stays. The only reason to be against the Hill trade at this point is if you're in favor of blowing the team up or if you have an unrealistic perception of what we could get in the FA market with that cap space.

As I said in the other Hill thread, I don't think whether Hill is here or not is a deciding factor for Hayward. Neither is playoff seeding. After the past few seasons of missing the playoffs he's probably happy just to make the playoffs. I think the deciding factor for Hayward is whether or not he trusts the FO's overall vision for the team going forward. And I think he does.

It was a bad move because it's lose-lose. Either you traded a lottery pick for a one year rental or you re-sign the guy long-term which kills your cap and with it the ability to build a championship team. Every trade should be looked at as "how does this get us to a championship". Because that's the goal. Championships, not playoffs. There were better options for the Jazz long-term with that lottery pick than a rental or something that kills the cap. As good of a player as Hill is.
 
If I were to guess, the FO thought hill would be solid, but not earth shattering. He is having a career year in almost every way imaginable. The plan was for him to be solid, re-sign him to a middle (not max) salary range and have Dante coming along.

Instead, Hill has far exceeded expectations, and will far exceed what the FO hoped to pay him. The other part that doesn't help is Dante has not made tons of headway. Stars just didn't align on this one. It will be another interesting offseason.
 
If I were to guess, the FO thought hill would be solid, but not earth shattering. He is having a career year in almost every way imaginable. The plan was for him to be solid, re-sign him to a middle (not max) salary range and have Dante coming along.

Instead, Hill has far exceeded expectations, and will far exceed what the FO hoped to pay him. The other part that doesn't help is Dante has not made tons of headway. Stars just didn't align on this one. It will be another interesting offseason.

Solid analysis...

Here is my George Hill prediction. I think we retain Gordon and while the market plays out Hill gets a crazy offer from Sacramento 4/132... max offer.

They have no one that will take their money that is in the age group they desire. They may not be in the range to get the top tier pg in the draft and will see Hill the player as an investment in culture. The have no prospect that will require a big extension in the 4 year window... Hill will decide between 4/100 from us or 4/132 from Sac.

The other potential max suitor would be Philly, but they will have more reservation with the obligations they have coming up and have a much better shot at one of the top tier pgs.
 
George Hill might not be as good as we think is and what I mean by that is Jazz fans have been watching such garbage point guard play for the past 6-7 years, that when he arrived on the court to run the show, he was practically radiating competence. I already have stories queued up to tell my grandchildren about the first time I saw George Hill in a Jazz uniform. Some of them start with "When George Hill stepped out onto the floor for the very first time, verily I say unto you rainbows protruded from his nether regions and his vintage shown like unto the glory of the sun..." Relative to previous humans to man the controls, he was like freakin John Stockton incarnate. It was unusual! Or perhaps about damn time ( *Pounds his fist on the desk*) that the Jazz had something at the position that made you feel some semblance of confidence.

With all that said, George Hill is really good at playing basketball and the Jazz need him or someone on his level. A little bit of incompetence on the floor from any one position can be endured, provided you have really good to elite talent elsewhere (see the Jazz of '97 and '98 as Exhibit A and B) but unless you have Lebron James or Michael Jordan, incompetence at the point guard is not so easily endurable.

If the Jazz lose Hill in the offseason, they're still pretty talented but without adequate pg play they are a ship without a rudder in western seas storming with elite star power and up and coming teams. Dante could improve and grow into that role, but you're investing a lot in hope if you see Dante as the answer, especially if you are looking at next season in a vacuum, which is exactly the thing Hayward might do when he's wined and dined this summer by teams whose future, may at that time, seem brighter than that of Utah's. I'm a Jazz lifer; I'll be here for the duration of my lifespan and as much as I want to sprinkle some bias on the current situation, I can't really do so with impunity, not with jiminey Cricket beating on my ear drums. So I'll just say it as clearly as I can. If our point guard play is bottom 5 next season, Even if Hayward stays, It's a step backward and that sucks. If this season has taught us anything, its that the Jazz are really good when Hayward Gobert and Hill are on the floor together. Sans Hill, they are sort of good sometimes and sort of bad sometimes but mostly just pedestrian. Perhaps the biggest issue is our offense stalls out for minutes at a time; hell it stalls out at times even with George, but not nearly as much. The cerebral aspects of his game along with his basketball gravitas is more often whats needed to grease the wheels and get the offense purring again.

If I were Hayward, and I saw Hill was on his way out the door this offseason, I'd definitely consider looking elsewhere to cement my legacy. Before this season, Hayward had played his whole career with either incompetent point guard play (I guess Devin Harris was sort of competent)or with a point guard who was an a**hole. At some point its gotta get tiring, shouldering all the weight. At least he knows he's got Rudy and Quin but in the end I think Hayward has to believe they have a chance to be one of the best in the conference for him to stay.

And by the way, even if Hill stays, Jazz will be paying 20-30 million a year for a guy that's not top 10 at his position, thereby shrinking your ability to keep current Jazz up and comers or attain interested high level Free agents in the future. I guess even if the Jazz lose Hill in FA, they could look elsewhere, but I'm not so confident in whats out there... Really think Hayward wants to play with DWill again? Jrue Holiday? You and I both know the Pelicans front office is dumb enough to overpay him and likely will.

All I've gotta say, its gonna be an interesting offseason.


Tl/dnr
 
The only teams with real significant cap room next season are Philadelphia, Dallas and Brooklyn - if George Hill wants to play for one of them instead of Utah, I'll be surprised.
 
The only teams with real significant cap room next season are Philadelphia, Dallas and Brooklyn - if George Hill wants to play for one of them instead of Utah, I'll be surprised.

I always thought Colton was Joncolton (the one from 10-15 years ago)...?
 
The only teams with real significant cap room next season are Philadelphia, Dallas and Brooklyn - if George Hill wants to play for one of them instead of Utah, I'll be surprised.

Sacramento and a bunch of other teams can clear cap space to fit Hill... NY, Orlando, etc.

He may not want to go there but if it is the difference of 25-30 M I'd probably go... then chase rings on my next deal.
 
lets see how everybody plays in the playoffs...

if he goes out and takes it....then pay the man.
 
I think this is exactly why the Jazz were talking to D-Will, and it wouldn't shock me to see them let Hill walk if his price is too high, and maybe sign Deron to a 3 year, 30 million dollar contract. If they really do believe in Exum, they shouldn't pay Hill over $20 million per year.
 
As I said in the other Hill thread, I don't think whether Hill is here or not is a deciding factor for Hayward. Neither is playoff seeding. After the past few seasons of missing the playoffs he's probably happy just to make the playoffs. I think the deciding factor for Hayward is whether or not he trusts the FO's overall vision for the team going forward. And I think he does.

It was a bad move because it's lose-lose. Either you traded a lottery pick for a one year rental or you re-sign the guy long-term which kills your cap and with it the ability to build a championship team. Every trade should be looked at as "how does this get us to a championship". Because that's the goal. Championships, not playoffs. There were better options for the Jazz long-term with that lottery pick than a rental or something that kills the cap. As good of a player as Hill is.

It is a bad move IF one agrees with your assumptions. I disagree. I think playoff seeding is a bid deal for Hayward's decision of whether to stay. I think making the all-star game while in Utah is a big deal for Hayward's decision of whether to stay. I also think having a very good point guard will be huge in Haywards decision of whether to stay or go. He wants to win and I believe he wants to know he can get recognition while being in Utah. Agreed that he needs to be bought into the vision of the FO but he has been here long enough he absolutely needs to see results. We can agree to disagree
 
Hayward is gone to Boston, otherwise Boston would've made a trade at the deadline.

Regardless of Hayward Hill should go. He expects a top salary, is often mia, often injured and he is on the wrong side of thirty.

1st round pick for a one year rental.
 
If he leaves there's an extremely diverse crop of PG's in free agency and the draft to choose from. It also opens space for Ingles..

With Exum, Burks and Neto on the books they can go in a lot of different directions..
 
With the Jazz failing to resign Hill, I am hoping that they are going to attack the free agency hard for a replacement. Hill has added much value to the team and will be hard to replace. I am trying to have faith that they are going to do something intelligent with this one.
 
Hayward is gone to Boston, otherwise Boston would've made a trade at the deadline.

Regardless of Hayward Hill should go. He expects a top salary, is often mia, often injured and he is on the wrong side of thirty.

1st round pick for a one year rental.


A trade? What with? Danny Ainge's typical "anything but Brown, Bradley, Crowder, Johnson and Brooklyn picks" offer?

Yeh righto.


This is Hayward's team. Hayward has a FO dedicated to helping him win. He can't be sure of getting that elsewhere and this notion he would give that all up to "reunite" with his college coach is just juvenile. As if Quin and Hayward haven't developed a relationship in their time together...

and what if Brad Stevens gets an offer he cant refuse and leaves? Is Hayward just going to follow him around the league like a lap dog? What if someone ***** his misses and his position becomes untenable? What if he gets sick or hurt or just some random life **** prevents him from coaching? Too many "what ifs" to base your future on someone else.

I'd be riding with Rudy, DL and Quin.
 
If we hadn't ever traded for Hill, we'd be staring at the 7th seed, a sweep by the Spurs, and Hayward leaving.

For how much better Hill makes us, paying him is worth it, as it'll also likely ensure Hayward stays. The only reason to be against the Hill trade at this point is if you're in favor of blowing the team up or if you have an unrealistic perception of what we could get in the FA market with that cap space.

If we'd traded for Teague instead of Hill, we'd have Teague locked up at 22 mill per year and probably be at 40 wins right now...
 
A trade? What with? Danny Ainge's typical "anything but Brown, Bradley, Crowder, Johnson and Brooklyn picks" offer?

Yeh righto.


This is Hayward's team. Hayward has a FO dedicated to helping him win. He can't be sure of getting that elsewhere and this notion he would give that all up to "reunite" with his college coach is just juvenile. As if Quin and Hayward haven't developed a relationship in their time together...

and what if Brad Stevens gets an offer he cant refuse and leaves? Is Hayward just going to follow him around the league like a lap dog? What if someone ***** his misses and his position becomes untenable? What if he gets sick or hurt or just some random life **** prevents him from coaching? Too many "what ifs" to base your future on someone else.

I'd be riding with Rudy, DL and Quin.

Hayward can go to Boston, the #1 or #2 seed in the playoffs in the East, add a top 3 pick, and compete for titles or he can stay here, with an old PG who is making more money than him and compete for home court in the West, only to get bounced in the second round until Durant and Curry leave.

Uh....
 
Tony Jones just posted this on FB:

"The deal on this is the jazz made one offer and it wasn't close to the max. Both sides mutually agreed to revisit in July. Sources say george isn't necessarily looking for max money, just a combo of good money and a good situation...but by no means did george turn down a max offer"

Sent from my SM-G925F using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Tony Jones just posted this on FB:

"The deal on this is the jazz made one offer and it wasn't close to the max. Both sides mutually agreed to revisit in July. Sources say george isn't necessarily looking for max money, just a combo of good money and a good situation...but by no means did george turn down a max offer"

Sent from my SM-G925F using JazzFanz mobile app

If that is true we botched another negotiation and cap asset. No idea what we are thinking if that is the case.
 
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