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Impact of rookies on winning and realistic expectations for Exum and Hood's first seasons

stitches

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I just read a very interesting piece on ESPN about the impact of rookies in their first several years in the league. I was not surprised at all by the statistical data that they presented, but it was nice to see numerical confirmation to my opinion. Here's the piece:

https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11340466/rookies-andrew-wiggins-rarely-make-sudden-impact

Rookieball: A losing proposition
First-year players rarely make a big impact, which should reassure Cleveland
Originally Published: August 13, 2014
By Steve Ilardi and Jeremias Engelmann | Special to ESPN.com

LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers want to win now. To speed up the process, the Cavs are poised to part with No. 1 overall pick Andrew Wiggins (and 2013 No. 1 overall pick Anthony Bennett) as part of a blockbuster trade for Kevin Love.

Many league execs reportedly consider the Cavs' move unwise; dealing away potential stars on cheap rookie contracts is the GM equivalent of fingernails down a chalkboard. But there's a point in Cleveland's favor that's simply not up for debate.

Rookies rarely, if ever, help their teams win.

Gauging rookie impact

RPM: What Is Real Plus-Minus?

How much does a player really contribute to his team? Real plus-minus tells how much a player affects the score, counting both offense and defense.
RK PLAYER RPM
1 LeBron James, CLE +9.08
2 Chris Paul, LAC +7.98
3 Andre Iguodala, GSW +6.63

Last season, we introduced a metric, real plus-minus, designed to gauge the impact of each player on his team's net efficiency -- points scored minus points allowed (per 100 possessions) -- while mathematically adjusting for the effects of all on-court teammates and opponents.

Not surprisingly, LeBron's lofty plus-9.08 RPM rating led the league by a comfortable margin. But Love's RPM of plus-5.06 was also impressive and strong enough to place him among the top 10 NBA starters. It suggests he added about 5 more points per game to his team's scoring margin than the league average player.

Now let's look at the average first- and second-year RPM ratings of every player selected in the lottery since 2001. (That's as far back as our RPM data set extends.)

nba_chart01_576x317.jpg


As shown, NBA rookies -- even high lottery picks -- usually post starkly negative RPM values. In other words, they are hurting their respective teams more than they are helping. Even among players drafted No. 1 overall, including luminaries such as James, Dwight Howard, Yao Ming, Derrick Rose and Blake Griffin, the average first-year RPM has been an uninspiring minus-1.0. That's the same as the per-possession impact of a mediocre bench player.

RPM Typical Player Value
> 6.0 All-NBA
3.0 to 6.0 All-Star
2.0 to 3.0 Plus Starter
1.0 to 2.0 Starter
0.0 to 1.0 Minus Starter
-1.5 to 0.0 Rotation Player
-2.4 to -1.5 Minus Rotation Player
< -2.4 Replacement Level
According to RPM, no rookie this millennium -- not even LeBron -- has had a major positive impact on his team.

The further we descend down the draft order, the lower the rookie RPM ratings fall. In fact, once we drop below the ninth spot in the draft, we find rookies contributing at about replacement level -- on par with D-League call-ups or guys signed off the waiver list.

Play tends to improve during the sophomore campaign, but the only draftees with a positive average RPM in Year 2 were those selected No. 1 overall. Among that elite group, only LeBron (plus-4.4) and Dwight Howard (plus-4.5) achieved truly elite RPM ratings by their second year in the league.

Win now?

While RPM measures player impact on a per-possession basis, a related metric -- wins above replacement -- factors in playing time to derive the total number of wins each player helps generate for his team.

nba_chart02_576x317.jpg


As shown, high lottery picks -- even No. 1 picks -- just don't move the needle much their first season. The average top pick has yielded only two more wins than a minimum-contract replacement player.

Immediate Impact of No. 1 Picks Since 2001
Player Year 1 Year 2
Name Draft RPM WAR RPM WAR
Dwight Howard 2004 -0.2 3.6 4.5 11.6
LeBron James 2003 0.0 4.5 4.4 13.3
Yao Ming 2002 1.5 5.4 3.7 9.4
Blake Griffin 2009 -- -- 2.4 9.1
Anthony Davis 2012 0.8 3.6 1.9 6.2
Greg Oden 2007 -- -- 1.5 3.1
John Wall 2010 -1.5 1.4 1.4 5.5
Andrew Bogut 2005 1.1 5.0 1.3 5.1
Kyrie Irving 2011 -0.1 2.2 0.9 4.1
Kwame Brown 2001 -2.3 0.0 -1.1 1.3
Derrick Rose 2008 -1.9 0.8 -1.5 1.5
Andrea Bargnani 2006 -1.6 0.8 -2.0 0.4
Anthony Bennett 2013 -4.8 -1.0 -- --

The single most impactful rookie, Yao Ming, delivered only an extra 5.4 wins -- hardly enough to turn a lottery team into an instant contender.

A no-brainer

The bottom line: Drafting to "win now" is a fool's errand. Even future All-Stars usually require at least three or four years before they begin to play at a transcendent level.

Consider reigning MVP Kevin Durant. His first-year RPM was a horrid minus-3.2. His second year? A tepid minus-1.5. But in his third year it all came together, and he posted an elite RPM of plus-6.2.

Andrew Wiggins is no Kevin Durant. Even in a best-case scenario, he simply can't be expected to help his team win this season. And probably not the season after that either.

So if the Cavaliers want to maximize their odds of returning to the Finals while they have LeBron James under contract -- that is, in the next two seasons -- swapping Wiggins for Love is not only a defensible move -- it's a complete no-brainer.

According to the RPM numbers, the trade should be worth an extra 10 or more wins for Cleveland next season. That's enough of a boost to make the Cavs a legitimate title contender again.

I think the bottom line is really important. "Even future All-Stars usually require at least three or four years before they begin to play at a transcendent level."

The average one can expect from a No.5 pick is RPM of -2.0 and WARP of 0.5 in the first season and -0.5 and 2.5 in the second season, and this is not taking into account just how raw Exum has come to the NBA. If he somehow manages to play at a level close to those numbers in his first few seasons I'd be willing to give him time even after season 2, before making any conclusions.

I realize there was a similar thread right after the draft, but I believe right now we have much more information about how NBA-ready our rookies are, so with that said - what are your statistical predictions about our rookies this year?

I'd go first and put mine in print:

Dante Exum: 20MPG/5PPG/2.7RPG/4APG/1SPG, shooting 38%FG, 25% 3P FG, 65% FT
Rodney Hood: 18MPG/6PPG/2RPG/1.2APG/0.3SPG, shooting: 45%FG, 38% 3P FG, 80% FT
 
Exum - 15 mins/7 PPG/2 RPG/2 APG/1 SPG
Hood - 20 mins/7 PPG/3 RPG/1 APG/<1 SPG

I've said this and I'll keep saying it. Exum isn't playing for Utah this year. We just have some skinny DLeaguer and Exum is taking a RS year. You'll enjoy that DLeaguer more this year and Exum more next year if you look at it this way.
 
Exum - 15 mins/7 PPG/2 RPG/2 APG/1 SPG
Hood - 20 mins/7 PPG/3 RPG/1 APG/<1 SPG

I've said this and I'll keep saying it. Exum isn't playing for Utah this year. We just have some skinny DLeaguer and Exum is taking a RS year. You'll enjoy that DLeaguer more this year and Exum more next year if you look at it this way.

If Exum has 7ppg on 15mpg that'd be crazy production(or rather scoring) for a rookie(about 17pts per 36). If he was able to do that, he'd definitely get more than 15 minutes per game. To put it in other words, last year we had only one player with higher PER36 number than this(Alec Burks with 17.9).
 
If Exum has 7ppg on 15mpg that'd be crazy production(or rather scoring) for a rookie(about 17pts per 36). If he was able to do that, he'd definitely get more than 15 minutes per game. To put it in other words, last year we had only one player with higher PER36 number than this(Alec Burks with 17.9).

Basically what I'm saying is that he will not play much, and it will only be against scrubs from the other team. So, yeah, I expect production from my #5 pick in garbage minutes against borderline D-League players.

I think he starts the year out around 8-10 mins per game. As the year progresses on, his minutes increase. I doubt he plays more than 20 mins in any game this year.
 
This is import for having strong veteran presence to make example for what is required for wins in 82 games season. Jazz dont have nobody so youngest team in NBA will have no direction. 22 wins will be more than predictable.
 
[size/HUGE] boobs [/size];906115 said:
This is import for having strong veteran presence to make example for what is required for wins in 82 games season. Jazz dont have nobody so youngest team in NBA will have no direction. 22 wins will be more than predictable.
I am maybe suspicious that in your mother's basement you type simply words that in this order which you choose make sense very little. Somebody who has sanity inside of their head will wonder possibly why in the world does this you do. Capiche?
 
I've said this and I'll keep saying it. Exum isn't playing for Utah this year. We just have some skinny DLeaguer and Exum is taking a RS year. You'll enjoy that DLeaguer more this year and Exum more next year if you look at it this way.

I like this idea and I Will try it..... gonna be hard though, as I was expecting more from our tank
 
I wish there was a study to show the impact of terrible washed up vets being injected into the game. Like when Sloan and Corbin played Raja Bell no matter how poorly he was playing.

I don't think anyone in there right mind would put 5 rookies on the court at the same time and expect to win. Sometimes it actually does make more sense to put the energetic young rook on the floor with 4 other vets. Because sometimes that 4th or 5th guy just isn't getting it done.

It's when the coach puts some horrible vet on the floor over the rookie, just because he's a vet, that makes people scream for the rookie.

People just want to see the young players play when there isn't a whole lot of hope for the vets. There is nothing wrong with that. It makes more sense to develop/tank than to beat your head against the wall using players that can't get it done, and there is is no hope for them.
 
I like this idea and I Will try it..... gonna be hard though, as I was expecting more from our tank

I agree, but it's probably more important to see if Exum has flashes where he looks the part of a potential all star. He had them briefly in Summer League, for whatever that is worth (which is nearly nothing admittedly), but I'm hoping that court vision he has translates over into real games. If he shows flashes of that I'll feel a lot better about the tank.

Hood is just a bonus, and if he's good that'll be a spectacular trade from Lindsey, who gave up nothing really for him.
 
I expect about 15 mins/per for each player. Anything they contribute is a bonus this season. It sure beats watching players like Tinsley, RJ, Howard and Bell!
 
I myself was not angry about whether if the Love move was a win move or a lose move.

I was angry at Cavs to cancel a fantastic basketball experience to happen.

So many number 1 picks in one line up growing together.

Seeing Wiggins grow near Lebron etc.
 
I myself was not angry about whether if the Love move was a win move or a lose move.

I was angry at Cavs to cancel a fantastic basketball experience to happen.

So many number 1 picks in one line up growing together.

Seeing Wiggins grow near Lebron etc.

Had Stockton and Malone beat MJ it would have been the greatest story in NBA history. Being a fan who weathered the storms with them (from the comfort of my couch) nothing could have been better. I'm happy to have been able to watch Stock and Malone take their chance. To have so much raw talent and trade it away on an ex? I know from personal experience, more fun to give the rook a try than a retread.
 
I myself was not angry about whether if the Love move was a win move or a lose move.

I was angry at Cavs to cancel a fantastic basketball experience to happen.

So many number 1 picks in one line up growing together.

Seeing Wiggins grow near Lebron etc.

Love/Lebron/Irving is way more interesting and intriguing than Wiggins/Lebron/Irving.
 
Love/Lebron/Irving is way more interesting and intriguing than Wiggins/Lebron/Irving.

Rarely on the same page with Cy, but on this occasion 100%. Too many tiny guys out there to chase the next offseasons that can play decent in a limited role as opposed to Wiggins who might become decent in a limited role in year 2, but there would be '?'s behind his long term development to become the franchise Hodor as they'd still have already 3 player who take 20 shots a game(Bron, Irving, Waiters).
And Love's 20 shots will be a lot better than Wiggins 20 shots.
 
You also have to remember that every rookie is different and their roles are different. Lebron was option #1 from day one and he struggled with it. The same with Durant.

Hood is a more experienced (and older due to transfer RS) player. His role is going to be a lot more limited than Lebron/Durant. I expect we will see a mini leap from him at the start of next year and then steady production after that.

Exum is probably more on the 4 year plan. The thing I worry about it is how will he maintain focus and discipline to practice in year 2 when he still is seeing minimal minutes.
 
[size/HUGE] boobs [/size];907064 said:
You blow up entire season in hopes that any contribution will be good shockeroo? What is point to throwing games if you get only scrubs?
Was Stockton a scrub? He barely played his 1st season. And he had college experience, unlike Exum. Gobert only appeared in half the games last year. ANYTHING they contribute as they develop will be a PLUS. Like I said, I'll be happy to see them on the court (Hood too) for all 82 games, averaging at least 15 mins.
 
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