Interesting take on why players need to cave in....quickly!!!

[jimmy eat jazz]

In my humble and not so informed opinion, the process it terms of players appears to me to be driven by what's in the interests of the star players, not the 80% or so of the rest of the players. Colton is correct that the non-stars could, if they had the will, upset the apple cart, but he too easily dismisses (or seems to) the intense social pressure to go along with the crowd. What scrub is really going to go out on a limb to oppose the Kobe's, LeBron's, etc. of the world? It would take tremendous courage to do so, knowing that a likely result is social ostracization, possibly being blackballed, etc.? The stars have the power, the rank and file very little, in practical terms. As in anything else, power is concentrated, and those without it face enormous obstacles, social, economic, and otherwise, to oppose it.

Do any of you really see, for example, C.J. Miles challenging Kobe on labor issues?

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

This is an interesting idea, but where would the games be played in this upstart league? Would the Miller's allow some other owner to use their facilities? Would the games be played at the U or SLCC? I'm sure it could work more easily in a bigger city that has multiple large basketball arenas, but SLC is not one of them.

Hypothetically, if something like this were to happen, the new league to could lease arenas from the owners/managers or rent space from major colleges.

 

[margodydek]

Here's a completely off-the-wall idea:

The players' union could threaten to ditch the NBA and start another league in the U.S. Players could nullify their NBA contracts. New teams could be created as corporate entities. Players could receive shares from a certain class of stock, with voting privileges and share of revenue, along with base salaries. The new league could be set up within 90 days. It would remain to be seen whether this new league could run more profitably than the NBA and provide as well for its players, but players could earn dividends from their shares in the league even after they've retired. Their shares could have seniority based on when they are issued. Obviously, new coaches and new managers could be brought in.

If the good players that people want to see (i.e., the players that create market demand) leave the NBA for a new league, the owners' investment in NBA franchises would go belly-up. The value of those franchises is really based on the NBA having the best talent. The ones with the real power in this negotiation should be the elite players (and their agents), and their leverage is the potential to start another league that they own. Other than the top players, there's nothing that the NBA has that can't be replicated.

These powerful agents shouldn't be threatening to de-certify the union and sue the owners for anti-trust, they should be threatening to "de-certify" the league.

If players aren't willing to take these steps, it shows that the players ultimately want outside billionaire owners to take care of them and assume the risk of running a profitable league. If that's the case, the players should make some concessions to the owners and let the owners earn some return for their risk.

There's a .01% chance that this could work. There have been some pretty high profile summer-league games this summer. The biggest was probably the game that had players like: Durant, Melo, CP3, Lebron, etc. People clammored for someone to air the game, but no one would touch it with a 10 ft pole. Why? They either have relationships w/ Stern & Co. or they're afraid of what Stern could do to them. From what I've heard, Stern has a lot of the same qualities as Tony Soprano.

And while people are die-hards and will watch any basketball they can get their hands on (as evidenced by the literally dozens of fans who are attending the Impact League in Vegas - hope you picked up on the sarcasm there), the majority of people would view this league as nothing more than exhibition matches that mean nothing. Most people don't like to watch frivolous games that have no meaning. They like things with history and being able to compare players in the 80's to current players. But if you start a new league, those things go out the window.

And lastly, if they could pull something off like this, why haven't they done it already?

 

[Stifle Tower]

To get this thread back on track:

If you could ask Billy Joel one question, what would be your follow up question?

Will you sing us a song...you're the piano man?

 

[Stifle Tower]

There's a .01% chance that this could work. There have been some pretty high profile summer-league games this summer. The biggest was probably the game that had players like: Durant, Melo, CP3, Lebron, etc. People clammored for someone to air the game, but no one would touch it with a 10 ft pole. Why? They either have relationships w/ Stern & Co. or they're afraid of what Stern could do to them. From what I've heard, Stern has a lot of the same qualities as Tony Soprano.

And while people are die-hards and will watch any basketball they can get their hands on (as evidenced by the literally dozens of fans who are attending the Impact League in Vegas - hope you picked up on the sarcasm there), the majority of people would view this league as nothing more than exhibition matches that mean nothing. Most people don't like to watch frivolous games that have no meaning. They like things with history and being able to compare players in the 80's to current players. But if you start a new league, those things go out the window.

And lastly, if they could pull something off like this, why haven't they done it already?

Agree. Without TV contracts and big venues to play in, the league fails. The reason the old ABA had traction is that most franchises were in 2nd-tier cities without NBA teams at the time (Utah, Denver, San Antonio, Indiana, etc). And neither the NBA nor the ABA had contracts that approached what players make today (even if measured in constant dollars). It would take a rogue network, maybe the 4 largest agents and their superstars, and a several billionaire owners to start a new league to repalce the NBA. They would also need to find a handful of larger college arenas to play in, or cities/arenas that had been deserted by pro teams (like Seattle and Vancouver).

Even at that, the salaries would be MUCH less. The better option for players would be to just go to Europe.

 

[squareinthecircle]

In that case let's get into the Euro leagues. We need good coverage, stats etc.- I just want some basketball really. A league without David Stern might be great to watch.

 

[margodydek]

I know some people probably don't like him, but I'm a huge Bill Simmons fan. I like how he writes and talks from a fans perspective and not as some objective writer that has no rooting interest in any player or any team. I think he's one of the best in the biz, and I won't go through his list of ideas to fix things and to make the game/league more attractive to fans, but he's got some that I think would be great. I know this never would happen, but I would love it if the NBA & NBPA actually invited someone like him to represent the fans in all of this. Can't really hurt to see what your paying customer might want to see and what they don't.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

I know some people probably don't like him, but I'm a huge Bill Simmons fan. I like how he writes and talks from a fans perspective and not as some objective writer that has no rooting interest in any player or any team. I think he's one of the best in the biz, and I won't go through his list of ideas to fix things and to make the game/league more attractive to fans, but he's got some that I think would be great. I know this never would happen, but I would love it if the NBA & NBPA actually invited someone like him to represent the fans in all of this. Can't really hurt to see what your paying customer might want to see and what they don't.

I liked some of his ideas he's had and written about the lock out but I'm pretty sure he's a WAY big Boston Homer.

 

[margodydek]

I liked some of his ideas he's had and written about the lock out but I'm pretty sure he's a WAY big Boston Homer.

He's an unabashed Boston homer. But at the same time he hates the Lakers with a passion, so that'd be a plus.

 

[carolinajazz]

Here's a completely off-the-wall idea:

The players' union could threaten to ditch the NBA and start another league in the U.S.

....yeah, a league where they could travel with the ball, palm the ball, play absolutely no defense and...oh, they already have a league like that, the AND1 League!

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

I think Bill Simmons hit the nail on the head. He said that this will most likely end up like the writer's strike back in 2006. The NBA players are going to lose paychecks to ultimately get a worse deal than they could get now.

I think the writing's on the wall. The players don't want to look weak, but let's face it, the owners have time and money on their side. If I were the players I'd choose one thing/concession that I really want, and then say, "we love the game too much, and just want to play, we've agreed to everything the owners want, but we want (x). If we get (x), we'll sign the new CBA." That might be the only shot they've got to get at least one concession out of this.

I agree. For some reason the NBPA thinks they are more "prepared" this time around. Well, owners are prepared to go the rest of their lives without the NBA. They have NO REASON to accept a CBA that continues to force the league into losses. If the NBPA thinks they can last longer than owners, they need to remember that 60% of NBA players are broke within 5 years after playing ball.

The NBA's strategy is the same as it's always been. Appeal to the little guy. Wait around until enough of the minimum salary guys are out of money, then get the deal you want because you'll eventually get 50% of the vote. Most of these guys know how short there careers are, they can't afford to miss too much time.

 

[Chargers Jazz Angels]

To get this thread back on track:

If you could ask Billy Joel one question, what would be your follow up question?

You divorced christy Brinkley ...... Why? Follow up are you stupid, have you seen what you look like?