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Is Joe Johnson off the Jazz Tradable Assets List?

Cy, you're underestimating the team chemistry component, which I strongly believe it can win you a few games every season.
 
I will reiterate my position here because it is the correct one... there are three situations in which JJ could be traded... 1 we need his salary in a bigger deal like a kevin love trade. 2 it looks like we have no shot at the playoffs by the trade deadline. 3 he requests out to a contender.

The scenario where we are in the playoff hunt and trade a valuable rotation player for a couple seconds is dumb. I also doubt philly or another team with valuable seconds would give them up for a half season rental.

So unless we suffer a serious injury before the all star break or make a major trade we will have JJ.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Joe Johnson isnt on the team past this year.... If you can get value for him, you do it.
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JJ isn't on the team past this year because two years is how long the Jazz wanted him. He's filling a gap during our development. Things might have changed because of Wayward leaving but I think JJ still fills the role we wanted. If the Jazz wanted him for two years and didn't expect to have him longer then I'm sure they're not worried about trying to get some 2nd round pick for him. If they can get something big by including him in a trade that's fine. If they trade just JJ and only get a 2nd for him then that makes no sense.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I will reiterate my position here because it is the correct one... there are three situations in which JJ could be traded... 1 we need his salary in a bigger deal like a kevin love trade. 2 it looks like we have no shot at the playoffs by the trade deadline. 3 he requests out to a contender.

The scenario where we are in the playoff hunt and trade a valuable rotation player for a couple seconds is dumb. I also doubt philly or another team with valuable seconds would give them up for a half season rental.

So unless we suffer a serious injury before the all star break or make a major trade we will have JJ.
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If we are on the outside looking in of the playoff hunt does that change your mind? Like we are a few games out of the 8th seed and the 7th seed is a few games ahead of the 8th seed, so we are basically fighting for a likely 8th seed and 4 game sweep to the Warriors. Would you prefer to make the playoffs then or lean heavily on the young players instead and get a lottery pick (or possibly also make the playoffs)?

Also, I'm confused how it could be dumb for us to trade JJ to Philly for the Brooklyn and NYC 2nd rounders, but it's also dumb for Philly to do it. Both teams kind of have the same ceiling and floor (that's probably wrong, Philly's floor is much lower if Embiid gets injured, like he has shown a propensity to do) of being a possible 5 seed or fighting to get to the 7th/8th seed. Further, Philly is going to have a maximum of 6 draft picks next year, so them dealing a handful of 2nd rounders just to help them make the playoffs for the first time in ages isnt out of the question. Hinky would never do it, but Colangelo might.
 
JJ is also on this team for just 2 years because of finances. If Utah keeps Hood and Exum, there may not be enough dollars to keep him. Then again, if Favs leaves, maybe JJ comes back for less money...if DL can't find a good replacement for Favors. It really makes no sense to go into the luxury tax.

As for a trade, I'd leave it up to JJ. If he wants to go to a contender, you grant his wish. But I doubt a contender would give up their first. So that means a late 2nd.

Of course, you'd trade him in a package for a starting PF or SF.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
If we are on the outside looking in of the playoff hunt does that change your mind? Like we are a few games out of the 8th seed and the 7th seed is a few games ahead of the 8th seed, so we are basically fighting for a likely 8th seed and 4 game sweep to the Warriors. Would you prefer to make the playoffs then or lean heavily on the young players instead and get a lottery pick (or possibly also make the playoffs)?

Also, I'm confused how it could be dumb for us to trade JJ to Philly for the Brooklyn and NYC 2nd rounders, but it's also dumb for Philly to do it. Both teams kind of have the same ceiling and floor (that's probably wrong, Philly's floor is much lower if Embiid gets injured, like he has shown a propensity to do) of being a possible 5 seed or fighting to get to the 7th/8th seed. Further, Philly is going to have a maximum of 6 draft picks next year, so them dealing a handful of 2nd rounders just to help them make the playoffs for the first time in ages isnt out of the question. Hinky would never do it, but Colangelo might.
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If we are 2 or 3 games out at the much earlier trade deadline throwing in the towel won't happen. We'd have to be 2 or 3 games out with a key injury that won't let us make up those games to persuade us.

Philly has Covington, saric, Simmons as guys that play the combo forward role... if healthy why clutter it with JJ. They don't need the playoffs for progress.

Some trades can be dumb for both teams. I think we'd be dumb to get a couple seconds for a key contributor if we are a fringe team. Gobert is ants to win now so we neuter the team and piss him off for a couple seconds? JJ is important for us as he's one of our few guys who can just go get a bucket and because he can play the stretch 4. I don't know if that is a need philly has but we sure do. I also think we could use the playoff cash money to buy a second rounder. They are available every year for purchase.

It just seems like a stretch to say we should do it... I think it's doubtful he is moved unless one of the scenarios from my earlier post hit.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If we are 2 or 3 games out at the much earlier trade deadline throwing in the towel won't happen. We'd have to be 2 or 3 games out with a key injury that won't let us make up those games to persuade us.

Philly has Covington, saric, Simmons as guys that play the combo forward role... if healthy why clutter it with JJ. They don't need the playoffs for progress.

Some trades can be dumb for both teams. I think we'd be dumb to get a couple seconds for a key contributor if we are a fringe team. Gobert is ants to win now so we neuter the team and piss him off for a couple seconds? JJ is important for us as he's one of our few guys who can just go get a bucket and because he can play the stretch 4. I don't know if that is a need philly has but we sure do. I also think we could use the playoff cash money to buy a second rounder. They are available every year for purchase.

It just seems like a stretch to say we should do it... I think it's doubtful he is moved unless one of the scenarios from my earlier post hit.
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1. I dont think JJ being traded means the Jazz are throwing in any sort of towel (Hell it could mean Favors is playing so well that minutes for JJ are hard to find)
2. I get what you are saying on the Philly having enough combo-ish forwards thing, but they really only have 1 SF and none of them approach JJ's shooting level.
3. I would disagree on the Sixers not needing the playoffs for progress (or at least it's very obvious that is not management's feeling, which is more important than what you or I think they should do). They didnt pay JJ Redick a 1 year 22 million dollar deal to not make the playoffs.


If they got JJ they could have their best lineup be:

Fultz
Redick
Johnson
Simmons
Embiid

Or if they needed more defense they could play Covington at the 2. Or if they wanted to be smaller they could slide Simmons to center and play Johnson at the 4. Johnson would give them versatility while maintaining shooting on the court which they don't have with their other players.

Johnson could play the exact same role for them as he does us and he would have the same kind of intangible benefit that so many people around here seem to value so highly.

I think Johnson would benefit the Sixers more at this point because they are a team that really needs the veteran presence more than the Jazz, as our core has now grown to be veterans themselves. And as I said, they have 6 picks this year (potentially if they convey the Laker's pick) and I think 6 again next year. They, unlike us, have a huge draft asset pool that need to start using to bring success to their team.
 
If Utah is scraping just to get into the 8th seed, I absolutely believe JJ could be traded.

DL has left the door open for a more aggressive rebuild if things don't pan out like we hope this year. The real question is where the line in the sand is for DL. I think it's a really bad spot to be in where you're the 7th or 8th seed with a likelihood of being a first round sweep, with little hope to grow out of that after one year. Portland is there right now IMO. I tend to agree with CY, in that I'd rather live and die with the youngsters in that scenario.

Personally, I think things will work out better than a lot of fans assume, but with the contracts we signed this year, DL is definitely prepared to go back into a tank if things aren't going right.
 
All depends on where we are in January. If we are near .500, we would be stupid to trade him. We would need him for a run at the playoffs.

Now if we are struggling and not looking like a playoff team, that means we are struggling built around a Favors and Gobert front court. I would trade Favors and Johnson for the best haul it can get us. We could even take a contract back if it meant getting a good enough asset.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Jazz got Joe Johnson because they needed buckets in the last 5 minutes of the game. Remember how the Jazz lost like 11 games in the last 5 minutes in the 2015-2016 season? Jazz magically started getting clutch buckets in the end of the game. Yeah they're still going to need buckets in the last 5 minutes of the game this season. That's why they're not going to trade Joe Johnson.

Buckets.
 
I haven't seen this mentioned recently, but JJ's contract has substantial value to the Jazz because it comes off the books next year. Same as their three new players (all with team options for next year, anyway). And Favors is a FA and Exum, and Hood are RFAs. So the Jazz are poised to have a TON of flexibility, and to be a major player in the free agent market next summer.

It looks like the only players the Jazz have under contract (not including the three team option players) are Gobert, Rubio, Ingles, Burks, Mitchell, and Bradley, for a total only of $68 million in guaranteed salary. Again, they will have a ton of flexibility! If they trade JJ for a player with a longer contract it will potentially hurt that flexibility.
 
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