Is Obama a Natural Born US Citizen?

[sirkickyass]

First and foremost, I fully support all drunken ramblings on jazzfanz. Second, I cannot tell what you are trying to say. It looks like you're backing off your moonbat theory and mixing that discussion with Obama's eligibility. Two separate issues.

The "moonbat theory" related to LG's assertions about what normatively should be the qualifications for presidential allegiance to the country. He's refused to engage in any real discussion of the edges of that theory and its implications for specific individuals or in any real discussion about the existence of a universal experience for individuals from a particularly country that makes them "tick" in unison.

Your post, while characteristically belligerent and dismissive, added next to nothing to the discussion but did make some statements that to the generally functionally illiterate population of the board could be assumed to be about Obama's specific allegiences. Given your propensity for drunk posting, I thought it was best to clarify. Of course, you decided to not answer the clarification question at all.

I've told you before fanklin: Being the purported font of all knowledge and wisdom is my ecological niche on jazzfanz. I was here first and frankly I do it better than you. I will not tolerate these incursions into my territory.

Love,

Sirkickyass

 

[Mission Accomplished]

I hope that Trump wins the GOP's bid for President.

 

[candrew]

"Public pressure finally forced Obama to do what he did today. Now the game begins," said Corsi. "Nixon thought he could stop the Watergate scandal from unfolding by releasing a few tapes. All that did was fuel the fire."

Forget the fact that this is a disgusting analogy for a moment; but really WTF is this guy talking about?

Nixon held a Smoking Gun and resigned before he was forced to reveal it. Where is the Smoking Gun here? Yesterday, it was the long form birth certificate? What is it today?

I thought for a conspiracy to have traction, it has to have at least a grain of truth in the center. This doesn't even have that. It's all about a bunch of people pissed off that a black guy is the president. I try not to be dismissive; but this is a joke. If you're a birther you're a ****ing idiot - end of story.

 

[Scat]

Marcus: Do you believe Obama's presidency will survive Corsi's book?

I have no idea as I don't know what's in the book. That being said, it would have to be incredibly damning evidence as it seems many people are willing to give Obama a pass on the issue of eligibility. Several people here have said that the Constitution shouldn't matter in this regard as they would allow a foreign born person to be elected president.

 

[sirkickyass]

I have no idea as I don't know what's in the book. That being said, it would have to be incredibly damning evidence as it seems many people are willing to give Obama a pass on the issue of eligibility. Several people here have said that the Constitution shouldn't matter in this regard as they would allow a foreign born person to be elected president.

Franklin: See this was my point. Not everyone is treating those as two separate debates. This is why I asked a clarification question.

Marcus: We'll ask this a different way. Do you believe Obama is ineligible to be president even after publication of the long-form birth certificate?

 

[Scat]

Franklin: See this was my point. Not everyone is treating those as two separate debates. This is why I asked a clarification question.

Marcus: We'll ask this a different way. Do you believe Obama is ineligible to be president even after publication of the long-form birth certificate?

Technically? Yes. As his father was not an American citizen Obama would have had dual citizenship. I'm pretty sure that disqualifies him. Do I think he should be removed from office based on just this? No.

 

[candrew]

Technically? Yes. As his father was not an American citizen Obama would have had dual citizenship. I'm pretty sure that disqualifies him.

Chester Arthur and James Buchanan both had dual citizenship (Ireland and England respectively, I believe)

 

[sirkickyass]

Technically? Yes. As his father was not an American citizen Obama would have had dual citizenship. I'm pretty sure that disqualifies him. Do I think he should be removed from office based on just this? No.

https://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

To another point: Let's say that tomorrow the Ivory Coast passes the following law: "Everyone in the world, regardless of place of birth or parentage, is a citizen of the Ivory Coast at birth. This provision is applicable retroactively to all persons born after January 1, 1900." Would it be your position that because every American citizen now holds dual citizenship (from the perspective of the Ivory Coast) that no one is eligible to be President?

Do you believe that James Buchanan and Chester A. Arthur were ineligible to be president as the sons of Irish immigrants for whom Britain claimed them as citizens?

 

[sirkickyass]

Chester Arthur and James Buchanan both had dual citizenship (Ireland and England respectively, I believe)

You beat me to this one, so I'll add a little more flavor: Arthur's opponents tried to bring him down by asserting he was actually born in Canada instead of Vermont as his birth certificate claimed. There are no parallels whatsoever.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Chester Arthur and James Buchanan both had dual citizenship (Ireland and England respectively, I believe)

James also preferred bananas to donuts. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[colton]

...many people are willing to give Obama a pass on the issue of eligibility.

More like many people here have seen zero evidence that Obama has been anything but a U.S. Citizen from birth.

 

[colton]

As his father was not an American citizen Obama would have had dual citizenship. I'm pretty sure that disqualifies him.

And you'd be wrong.

 

[Hitman]

I almost always follow this lecture with stuff that was happening before and after Hitler in Australia (settlers vs. Aboriginals).

Hitler was Austrian, not Australian, you doofus. And he had nothing to do with the treatment of Aboriginals.

 

[Nate505]

I hear Donald Trump is demanding an investigation to uncover just exactly what country that Latifa chick is really Queen of.

 

[Scat]

And you'd be wrong.

I thought that was the whole reason that the term "natural born" is even in the Constitution. So as to prevent anyone that may have dual allegiances or strong allegiances to foreign countries that may interfere with their ability to lead the US. The term "natural born" is used to mean a singular allegiance to one and only one nation. Dual citizenship contradicts this.

 

[sirkickyass]

I thought that was the whole reason that the term "natural born" is even in the Constitution. So as to prevent anyone that may have dual allegiances or strong allegiances to foreign countries that may interfere with their ability to lead the US. The term "natural born" is used to mean a singular allegiance to one and only one nation. Dual citizenship contradicts this.

What is the basis for this interpretation? Is it your own ***?

How does your interpretation interact with the first seven Presidents (Washington through Jackson), all of whom were born in a British colony as British citizens? Is it your contention that the founding fathers all meant to prevent themselves from being Presidents?

 

[colton]

I thought that was the whole reason that the term "natural born" is even in the Constitution. So as to prevent anyone that may have dual allegiances or strong allegiances to foreign countries that may interfere with their ability to lead the US. The term "natural born" is used to mean a singular allegiance to one and only one nation. Dual citizenship contradicts this.

I may be wrong, but I don't think you know very much about how dual citizenship works. You're presenting the situation as if Obama had actively gone out and sought Kenyan citizenship when he was 21, or something along those lines. That's nowhere near the case.

But even if that were the case, you would still be wrong. I'm pretty sure (and a quick internet search verifies) that the phrase "natural born citizen" now simply means someone who is born a citizen of the U.S. There are possible interpretations whereby it might mean something slightly differently than that, but if a case went before the Supreme Court that is almost certainly how they would rule (in my humble opinion).

 

[Scat]

What is the basis for this interpretation? Is it your own ***?

For what it's worth, I've won a couple of "best ***" competitions. I've been told it is well formed and fills my jeans just right.

How does your interpretation interact with the first seven Presidents (Washington through Jackson), all of whom were born in a British colony as British citizens? Is it your contention that the founding fathers all meant to prevent themselves from being Presidents?

You're smarter than this. Obviously the first few presidents were not natural born US citizens. Hence the reason that they tried to minimize foreign allegiances by making a requirement that you must have lived in the US for 14 years prior to running for office.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

14 years seems such an arbitrary number. I'm trying to determine the significance... oh, wait. Might it have something to do with the time frame between the Declaration (1776) & Articles of Confederation (1776-77) and the Constitution (1789)?

The wording of the Constitution allowed those present at the formation of the US to be eligible for the presidency but as time wore on would be replaced by only those that were "natural born" citizens.

 

[sirkickyass]

You're smarter than this. Obviously the first few presidents were not natural born US citizens. Hence the reason that they tried to minimize foreign allegiances by making a requirement that you must have lived in the US for 14 years prior to running for office.

14 years seems such an arbitrary number. I'm trying to determine the significance... oh, wait. Might it have something to do with the time frame between the Declaration (1776) & Articles of Confederation (1776-77) and the Constitution (1789)?

The wording of the Constitution allowed those present at the formation of the US to be eligible for the presidency but as time wore on would be replaced by only those that were "natural born" citizens.

Of course during this period of time the US didn't recognize dual citizenship at all. Even today the country doesn't formally recognize that anyone is a dual citizen of both the United States and another country.


See: https://immigration.findlaw.com/imm...igration-citizenship-naturalization-dual.html

However, your argument regarding Obama's ineligibility relates not to how the United States would recognize Obama's citizenship, but how another country would view his citizenship. In this specific instance, the argument is that because Britain, and then Kenya, claimed him as a citizen then he would be ineligible for President of the United States.

That same argument would disqualify the first seven Presidents because the UK would still have counted them as citizens under the "once an Englishman, always an Englishman" doctrine that was official UK policy until 1870. And your argument is apparently that "citizen" means exclusive citizen. And you've thus far advanced no argument that an part of "natural born" means "exclusively American citizen", rather than "citizen by birth."

The Ivory Coast hypothetical was designed to show the absurdity of this position. You didn't engage it or answer it at all.

Another question: Do you believe Lisa Murkowski (current Senator from Alaska) is a natural born citizen within the meaning of the Constitution?

BTW: I can't wait for our first clone president who will constantly be beset by allegations that even though he was cloned in the United States his birth was not "natural."

 

[DeliveryBoy]

Keep in mind, we have a liberal media. Liberal media liberal media liberal media. It's a liberal media that's allowed this to be an issue 3 ****ing years after the first time Obama showed his birth certificate, and I guarantee will allow it to be an issue after the second time he's done it. It's a liberal media that allowed this to become an issue at all, rather than recognizing it as the crazed rantings of hucksters and con men taking advantage of the most gullible people on the planet, conservative Americans.

Liberal. Media.