I hate the thinking that goes along the lines - if you don't have one of the top 4 players then you don't win a championship. How can the Jazz expect the players to be mentally tough, when the organization and the fans don't believe then can eventually when it all. To do things differently, you have to act different, believe differently, and execute the daily grind differently. If the Jazz organization isn't mentally tough, then how can they expect the players to be. Win the championship by blazing your own trail doing things right as a collective whole, not expecting one player to do it all. Build up all the players, let the team be the superstar.
Is the Jazz Top Brass and Organization Mental Weaklings?
- Thread starter jazzmania
- Start date
I don't think that is their way of thinking at all... IIRC either KOC or DL have been pretty vocal about modelling our team on the '04 Pistons... i.e., no 1 superstar but winning games as a collective whole.
The 04 Pistons is not a model to emulate.How many times people will be conned into believing that such a model exists? Those Pistons were an aberration, a Malone injury away from probably ending up as runner-ups. On top of that, they also landed Rasheed mid-way through the season in a big trade. And you want to emulate all that? No wonder there hasn't been a tem like that since 004 who have won it all. The Jazz basically do not have the willingness to break the bank and go for a bog star/trade. They always look to stay competitive, which in Jazz parlance, means making the playoffs and giving fans false hopes every season, that the next season would be it. And then break it up and do it again all over..
I guess their argument is that Utah is a small market team and this approach is the most prudent given that we don't have the resources to ride out bad decisions like the way NY or Brooklyn or LA can.
candrew
Well-Known Member
It also bears mentioning that the 04 Pistons ran about 10 veteran players deep. Jazz don't have 10 legit NBA players let alone 10 veterans.
Stockton and Malone getting to the Finals. Repeat that model. Get picks that aren't top 5, but have unearthed potential. Hopefully, this is what we have with Rudy Gobert and some undetermined player - Gordon, Derrick, etc. After that our only path is to develop the players, emphasize team play, and count on do the unexpected.
Genius. Just get 2 top 50 players of all time.
To get to the finals, you need all star players. Do you do it with a top 3 pick? In this market, you can't. You do it another way. You have no other choice. Granted it is near impossible, but nonetheless as long as there is a chance you have to be mentally tough enough to execute the plan.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
So how does Utah get a top-3 pick? Should Lindsey trade Favors, Hayward and Hood and try to finish just behind Philly and LA? Then what, Utah is an instant contender? Sure has worked for Philly, Minnesota and Milwaukee getting Wiggins, Parker and, in Philly's case, a number of top picks. Or Utah could end up with another Kanter. He sure turned out to be that franchise, all-star player a team automatically gets with a top-3 pick.
Jazz have THREE players that SI ranks in the top-5 at their positions in Favors, Hayward and Gobert. They have another top-5 pick who had a disappointing rookie season, but showed flashes of what he could be.
Yes, Utah does need to add talent. And I've been critical of Lindsey for not doing so. But it is not as dire as your knee-jerk reaction.
IMO, Utah has 7 legit rotation players:
Wings: Hayward, Hood and Burks. Look for an upgrade, certainly, but can go with these three and a guy like Ingles to get spot minutes.
Bigs: Favors, Gobert, Lyles. Need another banger. And a stretch-4. Pleiss and Withey are non-factors. I guess Lyles is a 5 if Utah goes small. He's really a specialty player since he can't shoot and doesn't have the muscle to play against the bigger guys.
PG's: Exum, MAYBE Neto would be a decent backup PG. He should be the 3rd, though. DL needs to trade Burke and bring in a legit veteran starter.
So off-season or at the trade deadline: address the PG position, add a big and draft a decent rookie. Jazz will draft somewhere in the 10-15 slot, depending on whether they can hold the last playoff position in the weak WC. Add 3 players and the Jazz are right at that Detroit model (10 deep). And that is the ONLY model Utah can follow at this point. We don't have a superstar and certainly aren't going to get one in the draft or via free agency.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
As a small market team, I'd insist on leveraging every non player asset at my disposal. I'd look to change the way everyone else does business. Moneyball with a twist. D-League use and purpose, International basketball affiliations, international scouting, traditional scouting, offseason training resources, coaching, coaching, coaching. Everyone has the same restrictions on cost of players, but how you utilize that cost is being severely under-utilized by the Jazz (and most everyone else in the league TBH). At least, in my personal opinion.
Seems like they're already doing all of that pretty extensively aren't they?
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
Some, yes, but there's a lot of innovative ideas that they haven't even touched. Outside of the international scouting (which is extensive) and the number of pre-draft workouts (which is clearly innovative) they still do most things the same as everyone else. The problem is that they want to emulate the Spurs success without actually being on the cutting edge of anything like the Spurs actually are. Look at how San Antonio adapted modern offenses and defenses under Pops, as well as increasing the number of international players on their roster under his watch. There's a purpose for that. Their coaching staff has consistently been the top one in the league and a huge advantage to them and their players, despite being made up of unconventional hires. Give the Jazz Engelland, Messina and Hamilton and I bet you'd see some impressive things happen. The key is to be different and force everyone else to be a step or two behind you instead of the other way around.