gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
System? We still have a system? Unless you count, kick it to the post, then back out, then back in, then back out, and finally throw up a desperation shot, as a "system".
is tyrone corbin that terrible?
- Thread starter yamers
- Start date
LOL.. may be I was being too generous...
vslice02
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can say this year's team really has any type of "system." We've scrapped the UCLA shuffle-cut that we could always get layups or open jumpshots on the weakside out of, we can't run much screen-roll when Jefferson's in the game, we can't run our cross-screen action that gets us layups and deep post position because Al can't catch&score on the move, and the flex sets we do run are so basic if you stop the initial backscreen (usually 2 screening for 3) you shut it down.
Now w/our 2nd-unit, we've seen moments of brilliance w/Hayward&Burks in screenroll, we've seen Kanter score efficiently on the block, we've seen Favors become probably our best low-post passer (seriously, he may not have great moves in the post but the few times he gets it - people cut hard and he'll find them) but mainly the 2nd-unit hustles and plays defense where they can get out, get some good looks in transition and cut&pass with some sense of purpose ... but again, we're talking 15-20 minute stretches and not 35-40 where we resemble a cohesive unit.
I would love to see more Favors&Kanter in our traditional cross-screen action, with a wing (DeMarre?) sticking the big and getting them point-blank looks beneath the basket. I think Hayward&Burks would be great running through our UCLA sets...remember in the game down in Orlando Hayward got 2 layups off the standard UCLA shuffle cut and Harpring pointed out he hasn't seen that all year (and we haven't really seen it since). Right now our 2nd-unit is great because they play hard, are willing to pass, play defense and have significantly more athletic ability than the starters. Give them a system worth a darn that can make their individual jobs easier and I really don't think "Playoffs" and "Core-4" are as mutually exclusive as the Jazz make it out to be.
My post summed up in 1/10 the space. Repped, GB.
Who would you have replacing Ty? Would you bring in Stan? A younger up and coming coach? Or would you promote Hornacek?
vslice02
Well-Known Member
I'm still in the Hornacek camp. I've seen him interact with the Core-4 (as well as Evans vs Det) going in and out of timeouts 1-on-1 more than any other coach in-game. Obviously we're not their at practice but I think he's really made a special effort to reach and teach them. Larry Miller always used to say as far back as the early 2000's that Horny was someone he could see coaching one day and that he would hoped it would one day be with the Jazz. He's obviously bright and got by as a player on intelligence rather than simply grunt work. While Corbin is a prime example that who you served under as an assistant is not indicative of the type of head coach you'll become - the fact that Hornacek played primarily for Cotton Fitzsimmons and Jerry Sloan (almost polar opposites in terms of coaching philosophy) give me hope that Jeff could incorporate the best from both of their basketball beliefs.
If Corbin is let go there will be alot of talk about Dennis Lindsey using his San Antonio ties to perhaps get someone from Popavich's staff, but successful NBA coaching trees don't sprout up the way you see them in the NFL.
Of course I'm biased but as a pipe dream I would love the idea of bringing Jerry back for a season and then turn the reigns over to Hornacek. Jerry could come in, establish some discipline, teach the offensive system, teach our young guys some toughness, teach them to work through their mistakes, get Jeff some good bench experience (i.e. anything besides coaching next to Corbin) and then take over in 2014 when hopefully this team will be ready to fly.
CALJAZZFAN
Well-Known Member
Yes. He's a terrible coach, but a great guy. I think I'd prefer the opposite.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Appreciate it PKM. I don't think Jerry would try to force Ty out, but at this rate Ty could very well force himself out and I think the Jazz would be his #1-choice to return to coaching. I'll admit I'm a total Sloan-homer but I'm also trying to be realistic because I really don't think the Millers will bring in a "big name coach" where they pony up $4-5 mil per (especially when it's possible they're planning to build a minimum-salary team next season), or even dip into the college pool (which historically has not had great results). I'm a big Brad Stevens fan as well, but even though NBA head coach is the creme de la creme for basketball coaches - as of now he seems like he's married to Butler. Heck, I'm not even sure if they would actually fire Ty this summer if the Jazz continue to plummet. Excuses have been made for him in the past, it wouldn't surprise me if one more round was made this summer.
Stevens is not married to Butler. Fact.
I really don't see Ty back without a decent rally.
I don't see Sloan as a possibility, imo.. but liked the thought process.
Horny seems plausible for the org..
Phil Johnson should have stayed on IMO. I know there was a lot of bad blood between Greg & Jerry, but Phil should have said - fine I'll do it for the org. But I guess Greg = Org. now. No denying it. I think the chance of Greg bringing back Sloan is slim to none. Greg's a proud man - exemplified by the fact that he has a different management style to Larry and Greg's actually very proud of that. Hornacek's our best bet I think - let's see if Greg can actually swallow his pride and fire his buddy Ty.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
-Interesting on Stevens, thanks. My second question is can Stevens handle NBA players?
-Agree, I think if Ty were to be fired Hornacek would be in the first group of canidates and Sloan would be a distant dark horse
-I still hold open the possibility the Jazz miss the playoffs but Ty finally caves and the young guys play promising enough ball that management gives Ty another chance w/a roster not laden with vet's Ty would feel obligated to play. Yes, that would be flawed logic by the Jazz but we've seen quite a bit of that recently.
Yes, I think Stevens can handle NBA players. I personally know about 20 active players in the NBA. They all 'say' they respect an x's and o's guy.. but from what I have seen over the last 20 years is it's one of two types that succeed with the chemistry.
1) A HUGE personality that inspires the players (either through fear and intimidation or 'Zen' like qualities).
2) BB genius.
I think Brad would make a team pause and say to themselves, "let's shut up and listen because I think this guy just may be cutting edge bb."
1) A HUGE personality that inspires the players (either through fear and intimidation or 'Zen' like qualities).
2) BB genius.
I think Brad would make a team pause and say to themselves, "let's shut up and listen because I think this guy just may be cutting edge bb."
illyasova
Active Member
You must be KOC who is trying to persuade fans in your way but GTFO
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
Horny seems like just another Sloan disciple, awful idea. I'm done with that. Hell, he's there now. Would it feel like that much of a change for the players? Does he look like a guy who'd grab the reins and take control? I doubt it.
Sloan, nah, **** it at this point. Just continue sucking hard so we ensure Corbin's ousted.
Stevens? He coaches a bunch of nice kids at Butler. No one with egos. No one who needs tending to all the time, or at least I doubt it. Shaka Smart seems like he has the brains AND strong personality to be a much better professional coach than Stevens. IMO.
akirac73
Well-Known Member
As far as I know...nobody has ever accused Corbin of being an ******* or anything, and by all accounts he IS a very nice person. That being said, he's not babysitting my kids, he's coaching a goddam professional basketball team, "nice" is not a necessity in the coaching profession...WINNING is.
Horny? Whats his record as a HC? How long has he coached? What makes you think he can coach at all? Because he was a very nice player? Does that really correlate?
And Sloan? You guys really want more 1950s basketball? And remember, he relied on Big Al every bit as much as Tyrone.
Time to move on wit a coach who is a proven HC and can teach defense. Neither Sloan nor Corbin have a clue about modern NBA defense. Stat from Locke: Jazz rank 27th in road game fg% for opposing teams, 30th in 3pt % on the road for other team. And it is because they play dumb dumb dumb 3pt defense, and Ty learned it all from Ol' Jer.
