Islamists kill 12 people in France during attack on newspaper office.

[MVP]

So this newspaper was known for caricatures about Islam. Radical Muslims did not like it and that's what happened. One of the reasons why multiculturalism is impossible - when 21st century freedom of speech values collide with medieval superstitions and beliefs there will be blood.
Now you guys who support multiculturalism tell me how it is possible to coexist without things like that happening? I just don't see how. To much differences. This will lead to third world war IMHO at some point. Possibly the bloodiest war of all times.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Are you for segregation then?

 

[MVP]

Are you for segregation then?

It is too late in most of the Europe. I think as strange as it sounds all hope is in modern Muslims aka dalamon. Are there enough of them to make a difference in order to modernize Islam and make it really peaceful and tolerant to Western values? One can only hope.

 

[addictionary]

Multiculturalism is not impossible. It is happening in micro-social cosmoses of the world. Hatred based on belonging differences (religion, nation, race, hooliganism) happens because of uneducatedness. It is not only not going to school, securing a bachelor's degree. It is learning the fact that we are no different than each other nor superior to another. Apparently, well developed Western civilizations' power holders educated themselves enough to secure their own nation's interests at the expense of exploiting the rest of the world, while making it look like they are a bunch of terrorists so they are better dead anyway. Every one of those terrorists are real people with lives and ideals and families left behind, which obviously end in us losing our heads or limbs. There are many inside facts to terrorism's human aspects that cannot be easily listed in a few words, but mutliculturalism, real democracy, learning to live together does not happen before stronger power holders decide to actually make the world a better place. Remember this is not about who's right, there is no rights in killing people that have never killed anyone, but this is about letting live. If a person from America looks down on a less fortunate person from one of the countries that they impersonate their language as Derka Derka Muhammed Jihad, then the problem is two sided, while the stronger side being the more responsible. As always, governments are the real guilty, people could do darn well without their propaganda and hatred seeds. Multiculturalism exists, and it resides in many little universes of the world.

 

[MVP]

Yes addictionary, I completely agree that it can exist on small scale just fine. I have 3 muslim teammates on our soccer team, we coexist very well for games and after game parties, nobody even cares about it. But when we are talking millions of people we have a problem. Everyday you read about complains from both sides and it is not government - regular people who are unhappy about one or another. Tell me how to solve this on a country level, I would love to hear that as whatever is happening in Europe is obviously not working.

 

[Deleted member 848]

It is too late in most of the Europe. I think as strange as it sounds all hope is in modern Muslims aka dalamon. Are there enough of them to make a difference in order to modernize Islam and make it really peaceful and tolerant to Western values? One can only hope.

militant Islam is reactionary. I foresee an Islamic Reformation that will largely distance itself from the Wahhabist interpretations of Islam. Most Muslims want Islam to reform. It took Christianity around 1400 years to do so, and we're at around 1400 years since the times of the prophet Muhammad.

I have hope. Terrible tragedy. A deep shame that things are the way they are-- and a shame that many don't acknowledge the roles that the US, and the UK played in the current politico-cultural climate of the Muslim world.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Yes addictionary, I completely agree that it can exist on small scale just fine. I have 3 muslim teammates on our soccer team, we coexist very well for games and after game parties, nobody even cares about it. But when we are talking millions of people we have a problem. Everyday you read about complains from both sides and it is not government - regular people who are unhappy about one or another. Tell me how to solve this on a country level, I would love to hear that as whatever is happening in Europe is obviously not working.

The same middle east that is publicized as being intolerant tolerated people of multiple religions within the same region for centuries.

 

[Deleted member 848]

It is too late in most of the Europe. I think as strange as it sounds all hope is in modern Muslims aka dalamon. Are there enough of them to make a difference in order to modernize Islam and make it really peaceful and tolerant to Western values? One can only hope.

100% agree with this actually. The cure for terrorism committee by self-proclaimed muslims is within the responsibility of Muslims and their nations themselves.

 

[fishonjazz]

Not to condone the killings, but why did they have to make fun of the prophet? Maybe a better thing to do would be respectful of other cultures and religion.

At the same time, I think we have gotten to sensitive as a society and way to politically correct and it's dumb that people get so offended so easily and feel that they need to punish the offenders.

So basically....... get some thicker skin Muslim extremists

 

[Beer]

Not to condone the killings, but why did they have to make fun of the prophet? Maybe a better thing to do would be respectful of other cultures and religion.

At the same time, I think we have gotten to sensitive as a society and way to politically correct and it's dumb that people get so offended so easily and feel that they need to punish the offenders.

So basically....... get some thicker skin Muslim extremists

You'd think that after the fire bombing a few years ago they would have gotten a little more sensitive to the topic.

 

[Siro]

I don't understand the ridiculous and irrelevant opposition to multiculturalism in a globalized world where cultures have already been mixed and merged so thoroughly, it is hard to trace back the originator culture of many of our habits. Or are you still in the opinion that the Irish are sub-human apes who should be banned from decent establishments (like many used to believe)? Or do you honestly think that cultures were born the way they are now?

This is an ill-informed reactionary opinion that isn't much different from the one held by militant Islam.

 

[Siro]

Not to condone the killings, but why did they have to make fun of the prophet? Maybe a better thing to do would be respectful of other cultures and religion.

At the same time, I think we have gotten to sensitive as a society and way to politically correct and it's dumb that people get so offended so easily and feel that they need to punish the offenders.

So basically....... get some thicker skin Muslim extremists

Because we live in a free society, and we shouldn't be worried for our lives if we offend the sensibilities of the wrong group.

 

[fishonjazz]

Because we live in a free society, and we shouldn't be worried for our lives if we offend the sensibilities of the wrong group.

Maybe you only read the first paragraph of my post.

 

[Siro]

Maybe you only read the first paragraph of my post.

I don't see anything in the rest of the post that nullifies the first part. In fact, it's not really relevant as Islamic militant are not part of our society, and they're not killing anyone because they've become soft and intolerant of political incorrectness...

 

[Deleted member 848]

Not to condone the killings, but why did they have to make fun of the prophet? Maybe a better thing to do would be respectful of other cultures and religion.

At the same time, I think we have gotten to sensitive as a society and way to politically correct and it's dumb that people get so offended so easily and feel that they need to punish the offenders.

So basically....... get some thicker skin Muslim extremists

People have every right to make fun of the prophet. IMO there's better humour out there, but I really dgaf if a satirist criticizes our prophet or draws him-- and neither should all Muslims.

 

[Gameface]

AccuLink(tm) Brought to you by Gameface:

https://www.cnn.com/2015/01/07/europe/france-satire-magazine-gunfire/index.html

(CNN)Hooded, black-clad gunmen burst into the office of provocative French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdoon Wednesday, killing 12 -- an attack that could be a game changer, given that the terrorists appeared well-armed, well-coordinated and, since they escaped onto the streets of Paris, capable of striking again.While Europe is no stranger to militant Islamist terrorism in the age of al Qaeda and now ISIS, this was no "lone wolf" attack involving one person as has happened in the past. The assailants concealed their identities and seemed very organized, right down to their getaway.
The fact they remained at large Tuesday night means another bloodbath could happen at any time, whether or not the Charlie Hebdo attackers belonged to a larger group.

 

[fallenchicken]

I just hope there isn't a lot of victim blaming after this.

There is nothing a woman can wear/do that "provokes" a man into raping her, and there is nothing these cartoonists drew that provoked their slaughter. The responsibility for this awful crime lies solely with the savages who did it--not with all of Islam, and not with the victims. As someone who mostly leans left, I'm already concerned that we're going to hear a lot of middling "The cartoonists did incite this..." type of responses. And of course on the right we're already seeing the anti-multiculturalism--whatever that means--type responses.

These cartoonists are not martyrs--leave that to jihadists--they're victims, and now they're heroes of free speech.

 

[One Brow]

Now you guys who support multiculturalism tell me how it is possible to coexist without things like that happening?

My understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that most Frenchmen (born and raised in France) whose parents/grandparents/great-grandparents came from Muslim countries are not citizens of France, but permanent non-citizens. When the French culture enforces such segregation, we can't just turn around and say multiculturalism has failed. Segregated societies are not multicultural.

 

[MVP]

I don't understand the ridiculous and irrelevant opposition to multiculturalism in a globalized world where cultures have already been mixed and merged so thoroughly, it is hard to trace back the originator culture of many of our habits. Or are you still in the opinion that the Irish are sub-human apes who should be banned from decent establishments (like many used to believe)? Or do you honestly think that cultures were born the way they are now?

This is an ill-informed reactionary opinion that isn't much different from the one held by militant Islam.

Siro, I am immigrant myself and I chose to accept everything my new country has to offer - even if it is way different than my country's tradition, laws, etc. We celebrate our national holidays or keep our traditions within the family and close community but we do not REQUEST or DEMAND it to be accepted by the rest of the country. There would be no problems with multiculturalism if everyone leaving their old countries would have same mentality and leave their old habbits and rituals there as well or keep it at family, community levels only. Just put your new country above your own personal needs! Accept it and become real part of it!
I am bringing my soccer team as example again - we are tied group of friends and we have people form all over the world, I counted 9 countries and actually canadians are minority but we have absolute fun and blast together and nationalities or religion was never an issue. Yeah occasionally, somebody in the party will not eat pork or drink, but that does not bother or offends anyone.
Why everybody can't be a big happy family at the country level? That is a million dollar question right there my friend and I would love to know the answer.

 

[MVP]

My understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that most Frenchmen (born and raised in France) whose parents/grandparents/great-grandparents came from Muslim countries are not citizens of France, but permanent non-citizens. When the French culture enforces such segregation, we can't just turn around and say multiculturalism has failed. Segregated societies are not multicultural.

No, it is not permanent.

A child born in France to foreign parents may acquire French citizenship:

at birth, if stateless.
at 18, if resident in France with at least 5 years' residence since age 11.
between 16 and 18 upon request by the child and if resident in France with at least 5 years' residence since age 11.
between 13 and 16 upon request by the child's parents and if resident in France continuously since age 8.
if born in France of parents born before independence in a colony/territory in the past under French sovereignty.
at birth, if born in France before January 1, 1994.
at age 18, if born in France on or after January 1, 1994.