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It's hard to judge Dennis Lindsey

T

TheGobertReport

Active Member
I am very excited for the Jazz this season and expect to be in the playoffs, and Lindsey's moves are a major reason why.

BUT

For all the great moves he has made, there are a few that are so bad and really stick out to me. The first gaffe was letting Millsap and Al Jefferson walk for absolutely nothing. Maybe a Jazzfanz member who is smarter then me about NBA contracts can explain what I am missing but to me one or both of those guys could have been traded the season their contract was expiring.

No one can predict injuries and based on his performance last year I think we can all agree we were comfortable with Dante as our PG of the future even though he was still so raw in certain areas. Lindsey can't be blamed for Dante being out and current PG situation. Some Jazz fans could say trading up for Trey Burke was a bad move because of how he's turned out, but I was totally on board with that move at the time.

Besides the way Lindsey handled the Millsap/Jefferson situation, I think re-signing Ingles was really bad. I know he was re-signed for dirt cheap but he doesn't fit into anything the Jazz do on offense or defense. I'd rather have a young guy who can potentially do one thing great occasionally then Ingles who can do a few things at a mediocre level.

Finally, I'm not sure if Pleiss was just an extra part of a trade or if Lindsey actively identified him as someone he wanted the Jazz to acquire and bring over to play. Either way, Pleiss will never be an NBA contributor. Even if we give Pleiss the benefit of the doubt now because he has to adjust to the NBA, I think we'd see the same scrub a year, two years, etc. from now. A lot of the Euroleague people I read online were saying Pleiss was bad when news broke he was coming over, and it looks like they're right.

No GM in the NBA is perfect, and I think Lindsey has made far more great moves then bad for the Jazz. I'm on his side for sure. With the regular season still a few weeks away I thought I'd find out if any other Jazzfanz had any major gripes about a move or moves that Lindsey has made since becoming our GM?
 
TheGobertReport said:
I am very excited for the Jazz this season and expect to be in the playoffs, and Lindsey's moves are a major reason why.

BUT

For all the great moves he has made, there are a few that are so bad and really stick out to me. The first gaffe was letting Millsap and Al Jefferson walk for absolutely nothing. Maybe a Jazzfanz member who is smarter then me about NBA contracts can explain what I am missing but to me one or both of those guys could have been traded the season their contract was expiring.

No one can predict injuries and based on his performance last year I think we can all agree we were comfortable with Dante as our PG of the future even though he was still so raw in certain areas. Lindsey can't be blamed for Dante being out and current PG situation. Some Jazz fans could say trading up for Trey Burke was a bad move because of how he's turned out, but I was totally on board with that move at the time.

Besides the way Lindsey handled the Millsap/Jefferson situation, I think re-signing Ingles was really bad. I know he was re-signed for dirt cheap but he doesn't fit into anything the Jazz do on offense or defense. I'd rather have a young guy who can potentially do one thing great occasionally then Ingles who can do a few things at a mediocre level.

Finally, I'm not sure if Pleiss was just an extra part of a trade or if Lindsey actively identified him as someone he wanted the Jazz to acquire and bring over to play. Either way, Pleiss will never be an NBA contributor. Even if we give Pleiss the benefit of the doubt now because he has to adjust to the NBA, I think we'd see the same scrub a year, two years, etc. from now. A lot of the Euroleague people I read online were saying Pleiss was bad when news broke he was coming over, and it looks like they're right.

No GM in the NBA is perfect, and I think Lindsey has made far more great moves then bad for the Jazz. I'm on his side for sure. With the regular season still a few weeks away I thought I'd find out if any other Jazzfanz had any major gripes about a move or moves that Lindsey has made since becoming our GM?
Click to expand...

As for the letting Millsap and Jefferson go for nothing-- the positive spin is that it was a strategic moved to get a high draft pick (Exum), to let Gordon Hayward grow into being the man, to let Favors show what he could do. Also Millsap and Jefferson had very little trade value because everyone knew they would be free agents in a few months.
 
What makes it difficult to judge his overall work as our GM is that how much influence/say he had in his first year (or 2) is questionable. My main issue with management (not DL) is that we didn't go into full rebuild mode after trading D-Will. As far as not trading Jefferson or Millsap at the deadline, imo there were either no available deals that didn't require taking back bad long-term contracts or upper-management (not DL) wanted to make a push at the playoffs.

As far as the Burke trade, in hindsight it is obviously a mistake, but like you said it appeared to be the right move at the time as we were in desperate need of a PG. DL also stated that Corbin was very influential in the decision (not that it removes any blame from DL but Corbin had ownership's backing at the time & DL was still in the process of establishing himself as the GM).

As far as Pleiss, he was nothing more than a throw-in as part of a trade in which we had almost no leverage (due to Kanter's public demand to be traded). DL & CO made the best of a bad situation by acquiring a (hopefully) future 1st rd pick along with a 7 ft project who has shown some offensive potential. Also the re-signing of Ingles was a low-risk move that secured a player who can facilitate as well as be a positive influence in the locker room (as well as help Exum feel more comfortable).

Any GM is going to have his fair share of misses, but as you stated, his hits have far outweighed any mistakes he has made up to this point. Acquiring Gobert for a 2nd rd pick + cash, drafting Hood at #23, hiring Snyder, matching on Hayward's contract, re-signing Favors at 4/48 & Burks at 4/40, as well as finding several serviceable role-players in the d-league (Cotton, E.Millsap, etc) has laid the foundation for long-term sustained success. While he may be tough to judge, however you do so, I don't see how he doesn't grade out favorably. While not acquiring a PG after the Exum injury is somewhat questionable, imo DL has clearly established himself as one of the better GM's in the league. We are extremely lucky to have him running our franchise.
 
They let millsap and jefferson go for nothing because they wanted to tank. And that was the right thing to do.
 
Millsap and Jefferson were allowed to walk at the end of DL's first year as GM. Also in that draft the Jazz picked Burke under input from KOC and Corbin (he really pushed for Burke). In that year KOC was showing DL the ropes and was still very much involved in the GM role. So the blame is shared and I will say 50/50 is fairwith how little we truly know how it worked day to day..

I disagree on the Ingles signing. He was cheap, is a good passer, teammate and contributes to the chemistry of this team. He also improved in a lot of areas as last season went on. I can see someone next year maybe coming above him in the rotation but I am happy with the Ingles signing.

Pleiss was part of what the Jazz got back in the Kanter trade to OKC. The Jazz wanted to bring over Tomic but when that went south, rumor blames Tomic's wife, Pleiss was the back up plan. TO help compensate for no Tomic DL went out and brought in Withey.

What DL has done that is great is bringing on Snyder and letting Corbin go, signing Favors and Burks to great contracts, fleshing out the FO on the scouting and analytics side, sifting thru players left and right to find gems to finalize the roster, drafting Hood and Gobert and stockpiling assets (foreign player rights, picks, cap space and tradeable contracts).

It is to early to tell what we have with Lyles and Exum.

On the whole I give DL an A-. I think he has done a great job fixing past mistakes and building a proper foundation for the Jazz in pretty short order . I think in the next year or two we will see more magic as DL pushes us from playoff team to contender.
 
1: How do you are anyone else know he didn't try to either actively re-sign one, or both of them? How do you know he didn't try to actively trade one or both of them. In a trade, it typically takes two to tango.

2: Trey was a very high level college player. Wasn't he college player of the year when he was drafted?

3: Agreed. I hate Ingles, he is so damned slow.

4: Gonna need more than 3 preseason games to convince me that Pleiss is garbage. Everyone deserves a chance to mature into a new system.

5: He has a long term vision as a GM. We started seeing glimpses of that vision coming together last year. I believe he has the Jazz on track to be successful once again for a long time coming.
 
TheGobertReport said:
I am very excited for the Jazz this season and expect to be in the playoffs, and Lindsey's moves are a major reason why.

BUT

For all the great moves he has made, there are a few that are so bad and really stick out to me. The first gaffe was letting Millsap and Al Jefferson walk for absolutely nothing. Maybe a Jazzfanz member who is smarter then me about NBA contracts can explain what I am missing but to me one or both of those guys could have been traded the season their contract was expiring.

No one can predict injuries and based on his performance last year I think we can all agree we were comfortable with Dante as our PG of the future even though he was still so raw in certain areas. Lindsey can't be blamed for Dante being out and current PG situation. Some Jazz fans could say trading up for Trey Burke was a bad move because of how he's turned out, but I was totally on board with that move at the time.

Besides the way Lindsey handled the Millsap/Jefferson situation, I think re-signing Ingles was really bad. I know he was re-signed for dirt cheap but he doesn't fit into anything the Jazz do on offense or defense. I'd rather have a young guy who can potentially do one thing great occasionally then Ingles who can do a few things at a mediocre level.

Finally, I'm not sure if Pleiss was just an extra part of a trade or if Lindsey actively identified him as someone he wanted the Jazz to acquire and bring over to play. Either way, Pleiss will never be an NBA contributor. Even if we give Pleiss the benefit of the doubt now because he has to adjust to the NBA, I think we'd see the same scrub a year, two years, etc. from now. A lot of the Euroleague people I read online were saying Pleiss was bad when news broke he was coming over, and it looks like they're right.

No GM in the NBA is perfect, and I think Lindsey has made far more great moves then bad for the Jazz. I'm on his side for sure. With the regular season still a few weeks away I thought I'd find out if any other Jazzfanz had any major gripes about a move or moves that Lindsey has made since becoming our GM?
Click to expand...
Usually when someone has a bad take I don't finish reading, but this was so bad that I couldn't help but finish.

Letting Sap and Al walk was exactly the right move as far as tanking and allowing players to improve such as Hayward becoming the man and allowing Favors and Kanter to get better and experience 1 out of 2 (efff u Kanter) The worst thing that happened was trading for Burke. I remember watching the draft while on vacation in sg and throwing a hissy fit just yelling no no no no! Over and over, but I'm not sure that's entirely DL's fault.

I'm not sure how u can't like the Ingles Resigning. Sure he didn't look great the first half of the year, but second half he shot 40% from three and was a tough heady player that made a lot of plays who also played tough smart defense and everyone likes him and is a good leader in the locker room.

Also major props to DL for not falling into the draft Booker trap and going with Lyles.

For the most part u don't have a clue about what is going on or how u run a team, but there's your answer.

Over all I'm very happy with DL and his performance as GM of the Jazz. I'm not as optimistic as most that the Jazz make the playoffs this year, but fully expect it the fallowing year.
 
TheGobertReport said:
I am very excited for the Jazz this season and expect to be in the playoffs, and Lindsey's moves are a major reason why.

BUT

For all the great moves he has made, there are a few that are so bad and really stick out to me. The first gaffe was letting Millsap and Al Jefferson walk for absolutely nothing. Maybe a Jazzfanz member who is smarter then me about NBA contracts can explain what I am missing but to me one or both of those guys could have been traded the season their contract was expiring.

No one can predict injuries and based on his performance last year I think we can all agree we were comfortable with Dante as our PG of the future even though he was still so raw in certain areas. Lindsey can't be blamed for Dante being out and current PG situation. Some Jazz fans could say trading up for Trey Burke was a bad move because of how he's turned out, but I was totally on board with that move at the time.

Besides the way Lindsey handled the Millsap/Jefferson situation, I think re-signing Ingles was really bad. I know he was re-signed for dirt cheap but he doesn't fit into anything the Jazz do on offense or defense. I'd rather have a young guy who can potentially do one thing great occasionally then Ingles who can do a few things at a mediocre level.

Finally, I'm not sure if Pleiss was just an extra part of a trade or if Lindsey actively identified him as someone he wanted the Jazz to acquire and bring over to play. Either way, Pleiss will never be an NBA contributor. Even if we give Pleiss the benefit of the doubt now because he has to adjust to the NBA, I think we'd see the same scrub a year, two years, etc. from now. A lot of the Euroleague people I read online were saying Pleiss was bad when news broke he was coming over, and it looks like they're right.

No GM in the NBA is perfect, and I think Lindsey has made far more great moves then bad for the Jazz. I'm on his side for sure. With the regular season still a few weeks away I thought I'd find out if any other Jazzfanz had any major gripes about a move or moves that Lindsey has made since becoming our GM?
Click to expand...

Thee jazz fan said:
Usually when someone has a bad take I don't finish reading, but this was so bad that I couldn't help but finish.

Letting Sap and Al walk was exactly the right move as far as tanking and allowing players to improve such as Hayward becoming the man and allowing Favors and Kanter to get better and experience 1 out of 2 (efff u Kanter) The worst thing that happened was trading for Burke. I remember watching the draft while on vacation in sg and throwing a hissy fit just yelling no no no no! Over and over, but I'm not sure that's entirely DL's fault.

I'm not sure how u can't like the Ingles Resigning. Sure he didn't look great the first half of the year, but second half he shot 40% from three and was a tough heady player that made a lot of plays who also played tough smart defense and everyone likes him and is a good leader in the locker room.

Also major props to DL for not falling into the draft Booker trap and going with Lyles.

For the most part u don't have a clue about what is going on or how u run a team, but there's your answer.

Over all I'm very happy with DL and his performance as GM of the Jazz. I'm not as optimistic as most that the Jazz make the playoffs this year, but fully expect it the fallowing year.
Click to expand...

Quoted the wrong post. Meant to quit the op.
 
TheGobertReport said:
I am very excited for the Jazz this season and expect to be in the playoffs, and Lindsey's moves are a major reason why.

BUT

For all the great moves he has made, there are a few that are so bad and really stick out to me. The first gaffe was letting Millsap and Al Jefferson walk for absolutely nothing. Maybe a Jazzfanz member who is smarter then me about NBA contracts can explain what I am missing but to me one or both of those guys could have been traded the season their contract was expiring.

No one can predict injuries and based on his performance last year I think we can all agree we were comfortable with Dante as our PG of the future even though he was still so raw in certain areas. Lindsey can't be blamed for Dante being out and current PG situation. Some Jazz fans could say trading up for Trey Burke was a bad move because of how he's turned out, but I was totally on board with that move at the time.

Besides the way Lindsey handled the Millsap/Jefferson situation, I think re-signing Ingles was really bad. I know he was re-signed for dirt cheap but he doesn't fit into anything the Jazz do on offense or defense. I'd rather have a young guy who can potentially do one thing great occasionally then Ingles who can do a few things at a mediocre level.

Finally, I'm not sure if Pleiss was just an extra part of a trade or if Lindsey actively identified him as someone he wanted the Jazz to acquire and bring over to play. Either way, Pleiss will never be an NBA contributor. Even if we give Pleiss the benefit of the doubt now because he has to adjust to the NBA, I think we'd see the same scrub a year, two years, etc. from now. A lot of the Euroleague people I read online were saying Pleiss was bad when news broke he was coming over, and it looks like they're right.

No GM in the NBA is perfect, and I think Lindsey has made far more great moves then bad for the Jazz. I'm on his side for sure. With the regular season still a few weeks away I thought I'd find out if any other Jazzfanz had any major gripes about a move or moves that Lindsey has made since becoming our GM?
Click to expand...

Do you even Jazz?
 
Not hard for me to judge him. He's been great so far with the resources he's had to work with. Not every decision has been a winner, but many have.

Honestly, him not re-signing Demarre is the biggest regret I have for him.
 
Hmmm... He has a job that has a lot of risk and judgment calls. I think he gets an A at this point due to the drafting, hiring QS, and setting an overall culture and strategy that has brought the Jazz to this point which is the first "up year" of the rebuild. It is on schedule, it looks promising, contracts are reasonable, and coach is a stud. I like that he's taken a competitive position of going big in an era of small ball. (You do that when you land Gobert. :-)
.
When you see so many teams gettin' ready to get ready year after year, and you add in the market power of the Utah Jazz have in free agency, then I grade the situation the Jazz are in as "great."
.
So to quote the requests above: What GM do you trade for?
 
Any GM or management makes mistakes. The good ones just don't let their mistakes bury the team they are managing(a.k.a. Billy King). As a whole I like where the team is and I am excited for the season to start and for the following years to show us whether or not we truly have something special or we are enchanted by the glitter of fool's gold.
 
phippsj said:
This. Why do fans expect GMs to have a 100% correct decision rate? History is 20/20, but its a lot harder when your sitting in the chair looking forward. He's done a great job.
Click to expand...

In what part of my post did I remotely infer I wanted to trade GM's. In fact, I explicitly stated that "He's made far many great moves, and I'm on his side for sure".

I guess reading comprehension is piss poor in this Jazz community.
 
OP actually had a pretty good post. Don't know why so many if you are complaining about it. I know it's impossible to be a true fan if you're critical of anything these days, but yall should try it.

Fwiw, our return in the Kanter trade was awful, and there's no denying that.
 
Howard said:
OP actually had a pretty good post. Don't know why so many if you are complaining about it. I know it's impossible to be a true fan if you're critical of anything these days, but yall should try it.

Fwiw, our return in the Kanter trade was awful, and there's no denying that.
Click to expand...
I think Kanter was the best expected. Perhaps he could have preempted like the Dwill move. As it turned out the Jazz skyrocketed into being a playoff caliber team the moment Kanter left, and a division rival has maxed a guy they don't even plan on starting. Kanter was/is fools gold.

Would you want Kanter on his current contract?

I do really miss JYD though. Can't remember the circumstatnces there. It would be interesting to know what things DL would have changed in hindsight.
 
Howard said:
Fwiw, our return in the Kanter trade was awful, and there's no denying that.
Click to expand...

I feel like part of the trade was an additional 20 minutes of Gobert. Also a galvanizing common enemy for the team to rally around. That's a pretty good return. True, the incoming were Pleiss and that Frankenstein looking ****er and whatever else, but really Kanter is a ********. Addition by subtraction. Plus Lindsey brought in Quin Snyder and has changed the culture of the FO.
 
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