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It's hard to judge Dennis Lindsey

Howard said:
OP actually had a pretty good post. Don't know why so many if you are complaining about it. I know it's impossible to be a true fan if you're critical of anything these days, but yall should try it.

Fwiw, our return in the Kanter trade was awful, and there's no denying that.
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Yeah, hard to believe how little we got back for trading the right to massively overpay a significantly flawed and disgruntled player who was stifling the progress of our most ungruntled players.
 
TheGobertReport said:
I am very excited for the Jazz this season and expect to be in the playoffs, and Lindsey's moves are a major reason why.

BUT

For all the great moves he has made, there are a few that are so bad and really stick out to me. The first gaffe was letting Millsap and Al Jefferson walk for absolutely nothing. Maybe a Jazzfanz member who is smarter then me about NBA contracts can explain what I am missing but to me one or both of those guys could have been traded the season their contract was expiring.

No one can predict injuries and based on his performance last year I think we can all agree we were comfortable with Dante as our PG of the future even though he was still so raw in certain areas. Lindsey can't be blamed for Dante being out and current PG situation. Some Jazz fans could say trading up for Trey Burke was a bad move because of how he's turned out, but I was totally on board with that move at the time.

Besides the way Lindsey handled the Millsap/Jefferson situation, I think re-signing Ingles was really bad. I know he was re-signed for dirt cheap but he doesn't fit into anything the Jazz do on offense or defense. I'd rather have a young guy who can potentially do one thing great occasionally then Ingles who can do a few things at a mediocre level.

Finally, I'm not sure if Pleiss was just an extra part of a trade or if Lindsey actively identified him as someone he wanted the Jazz to acquire and bring over to play. Either way, Pleiss will never be an NBA contributor. Even if we give Pleiss the benefit of the doubt now because he has to adjust to the NBA, I think we'd see the same scrub a year, two years, etc. from now. A lot of the Euroleague people I read online were saying Pleiss was bad when news broke he was coming over, and it looks like they're right.

No GM in the NBA is perfect, and I think Lindsey has made far more great moves then bad for the Jazz. I'm on his side for sure. With the regular season still a few weeks away I thought I'd find out if any other Jazzfanz had any major gripes about a move or moves that Lindsey has made since becoming our GM?
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Carroll was his biggest mistake. The narrative that we got nothing for Paul and Al needs to die. We used their cap space to get Hood and another first rounder, plus a handful of 2nd round picks. We would not have received much of anything in a sign and trade. Probably could have moved Paul at the trade deadline, but it wouldn't have been for much and I am not sure we had made up our minds on whether to resign him.

What we got for Kanter was fair. People knew big money was coming and tbh we knew he wasn't worth it. The fact that we stuck OKC with a maxed out Kanter is kind of funny to me... anything extra we got is now gravy to me. Tibor may be a good backup center.... waaaaaay to early to write him off. Why? because he is skinny and goofy looking? He may add something for us and is cheap.

The Ingles signing was great. Two years and $4M for our 9th 10th wing who shot +40% from three after all-star break and is a great passer and locker room guy. He fits what we do well and yeah he is slow, but he still gets it done and defends well enough. Price is important here... Kyle Singler got 4 years and almost 20M from OKC... they are similar players.

You are nitpicking, but I understand your greater point I guess. He is not a god... not perfect, but he has been really damn good and I wouldn't have anyone else. He understands our market, team, ownership group and has been patiently building. We now have a great young core and as much flexibility as anyone in the league... also have a ton of draft assets. I'd give him an A thus far.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Yeah, hard to believe how little we got back for trading the right to massively overpay a significantly flawed and disgruntled player who was stifling the progress of our most ungruntled players.
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Then OKC went out and signed him to a pretty big contract. They clearly wanted him a bit. I realize the flaws of Kanter, but there's a good chance we don't even get one quality NBA player out of the trade. That's a fail.
 
Howard said:
Then OKC went out and signed him to a pretty big contract. They clearly wanted him a bit. I realize the flaws of Kanter, but there's a good chance we don't even get one quality NBA player out of the trade. That's a fail.
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Enes Kanter is historically bad on defense. So bad that one might question whether he's a "quality NBA player"..... Typically it's hard to trade a non-quality player for a quality player.

I'm happy enough with the Kanter trade.
 
Howard said:
Then OKC went out and signed him to a pretty big contract. They clearly wanted him a bit. I realize the flaws of Kanter, but there's a good chance we don't even get one quality NBA player out of the trade. That's a fail.
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Bet we could sign one that has a greater impact than Kanter for less than $80M over 4 years.
 
DL is awesome. No way KOC had the guts to make the moves DL has pulled off. Rebuilding a franchise is a tough thing to do and he's been incredible. Although I wished he would have signed Demarre Carrol. But, no one is perfect.
 
NAOS said:
Enes Kanter is historically bad on defense. So bad that one might question whether he's a "quality NBA player"..... Typically it's hard to trade a non-quality player for a quality player.

I'm happy enough with the Kanter trade.
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That's nice, except we traded him to a team that clearly values him more than you or I do. In return we got Jerrett (who is awful), Pleiss (who might someday be able to be an NBA caliber player) and a crappy draft pick. Im not saying we should've gotten a star, but we got practically nothing. I suppose it's a little better than getting nothing, but not much.
 
Howard said:
Then OKC went out and signed him to a pretty big contract. They clearly wanted him a bit. I realize the flaws of Kanter, but there's a good chance we don't even get one quality NBA player out of the trade. That's a fail.
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Are you crazy? We effectively shackled a team that appeared to be one of our primary rivals going forward with a contract that could easily sink their championship hopes. OKC had to keep him in order to have any chance at retaining Durrant, so Portland stepped in and forced them to pay the max. The big loser on that transaction was OKC, and they probably knew it even before the ink was on that new Kanter contract.

People seem to be of the belief that in order for a move to be good our team has to walk away with a major haul. Why don't you lay out your alternate reality of what you believe we could/should have gotten from him under the circumstances.

Also, take a moment to imagine worst case, which is that we fail to trade him, we never have an opportunity to recognize Gobert's value as a starter or experience the resurgence in pride that has fueled this team through this summer, and we potentially end up overpaying Kanter to keep him on the team this year.
 
Howard said:
That's nice, except we traded him to a team that clearly values him more than you or I do. In return we got Jerrett (who is awful), Pleiss (who might someday be able to be an NBA caliber player) and a crappy draft pick. Im not saying we should've gotten a star, but we got practically nothing. I suppose it's a little better than getting nothing, but not much.
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you cannot sound competent on this trade if you don't mention the financial side of the equation. That was certainly a big factor.
 
Howard said:
And what does that have to do with anything I said?
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We traded Kanter who then got a monster contract. You said we might walk away from this trade without a quality NBA player. We could take the monster contract money that we would have had to offer Kanter and offer it to a quality NBA player who could then come play for us.

We can't ignore the salary cap ramifications in trades. The money isn't just cash... it limits how you how you can shape your team. I would rather have the crappy picks, Pleiss on the cheap, and buyout Garrett than have Kanter at his current price. TBH I'd rather have nothing than Kanter at the max.
 
Howard said:
That's nice, except we traded him to a team that clearly values him more than you or I do. In return we got Jerrett (who is awful), Pleiss (who might someday be able to be an NBA caliber player) and a crappy draft pick. Im not saying we should've gotten a star, but we got practically nothing. I suppose it's a little better than getting nothing, but not much.
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NAOS said:
you cannot sound competent on this trade if you don't mention the financial side of the equation. That was certainly a big factor.
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In addition to the financial side as mentioned by NAOS, just the fact that DL got rid of Kanter for something was good for our team. The team not only was much better after he was gone, but they seemed to be very close and unified. I would personally consider the trade to get rid of Kanter a good trade even if we only got a ham sandwich in return.

The value of the trade should not only be evaluated in the value of what we get back, but the negative value of what we jettison.
 
Jazz Spazz said:
In addition to the financial side as mentioned by NAOS, just the fact that DL got rid of Kanter for something was good for our team. The team not only was much better after he was gone, but they seemed to be very close and unified. I would personally consider the trade to get rid of Kanter a good trade even if we only got a ham sandwich in return.

The value of the trade should not only be evaluated in the value of what we get back, but the negative value of what we jettison.
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I'd take that sandwich right now... I'm effing hungry.
 
That Kanter contract is one of the riskiest in the league. He's not proven to be an effective NBA player and cause some serious issues on defense and some less serious issues on offense. Let's not forget the guy has had a handful of injuries and just had a knee surgery in the offseason. He doesn't have a step he can afford to lose. I love that OKC has him on the books right now and not us.
 
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