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Its Time to Tank

Ya JC, mike, whatever. Him playing poorly isnt the reason his minutes are down. He has played great. Literally playing the best ball of his career this season.
His minutes are down because of depth and talent at the positions he plays is good.

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I disagree as I stated from the jump. His numbers no matter how efficient this season, are against lesser defenders than as a first option in CLE, and he has not earned the usage against better defenders. I don't care if it is because of older players in front of him or health maybe its a little of both. He should be starting and feasting on the open looks he would have a lot of, having a player of the Finnishers gravity with him. Maybe after those other guards are out of the picture we will see it. My gut tells me unless Hardy is pressured to try to kill the vets trade values by over playing them into innefficiency right before the trade deadline. My assumption is Sexton gets traded easier, as his numbers are as you say more efficeint in a vacuum, regardless of situation, for any other gm not interested in the chuckers in front of him facing better defenders.
 
I disagree as I stated from the jump. His numbers no matter how efficient this season, are against lesser defenders than as a first option in CLE, and he has not earned the usage against better defenders. I don't care if it is because of older players in front of him or health maybe its a little of both. He should be starting and feasting on the open looks he would have a lot of, having a player of the Finnishers gravity with him. Maybe after those other guards are out of the picture we will see it. My gut tells me unless Hardy is pressured to try to kill the vets trade values by over playing them into innefficiency right before the trade deadline. My assumption is Sexton gets traded easier, as his numbers are as you say more efficeint in a vacuum, regardless of situation, for any other gm not interested in the chuckers in front of him facing better defenders.

Why do you think he snt getting as many minutes? We have established that it cant be due to poor play since he is playing better than he ever has before.
If you think its due to injury then what other factors are there to support that theory besides just minutes being down (since we know his minutes could be down for many reasons that have nothing to do with injuries)?

He is getting up for amazing dunks and rebounds so his jumping ability isnt being effected by this hypothetical injury. He is still the fastest player on the team and i have heard announcers of other team express their amazement at his speed so his speed isnt being effected by the hypothetical injury. He is shooting career highs so his shooting isnt being effected by injury. He is getting to the line just as often as ever and attacking the paint against much bigger players just as much so his aggressiveness isnt being affected by his hypothetical injury.

What makes you think he is hurt and why do you think the jazz would play him at all if he was hurt.

And you never answered the question of why you think he is struggling with shooting and scoring. You said he is playing against backups and playing less minutes and usage but i still domt see how playing against backuos in less minutes equals struggling to shoot and score when his scoring his usual amounts in his lesser minutes and shooting career highs.



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not a good enough reason and those players are not better than him by your measurements stat wise at all smh

Im not the coach. My measurements of stats have no bearing on playing time at all silly. Maybe sextons play style isnt what hardy likes. And maybe hardy is like a lot of coaches and plays senior players over younger players. Maybe conley and clarkson know the system hardy is running better than sexton.

What makes you think he is injured or struggling with his shooting and scoring?



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Playing Lauri zero minutes and Gay 30 ain't gonna change things for ya? I just think if you pull 2-3 depth pieces and then sit Lauri or JC a few extra nights it will swing a few games. If you would have gone 3-3 i could see you easily going 1-5. Two games matters. We play OKC 4 times between now and the end of the season. Going 2-2 vs. 1-3 could be the difference between 8-9 or 10-11 right there. It is so damn tight literally every game will matter.
I feel like we're dancing on the head of a pin here :)

Again, not easily. Let's says as you put it before Lauri is difference between -2 and +2 - 55 % and 45 % (and that's likely a bit too much). The chances of going 1-5 as the favorite (with Lauri (or JC)) are ~6 %. The chances as the dog (with Lauri out) are ~13 %. Most often you'll go 3-3, no matter what.

Resting Lauri on b2bs for injury prevention etc. down the stretch, smart. Resting him for lottery purposes, very unlikely to make any difference.

Obviously trading all the vets + not getting back anyone decent changes things much more. But then again Jazz/DA made it quite clear in the McMahon piece that he won't make any trades for or even think about trades simply for the purpose of advancing in the lottery.

And really, what's the value between the 8-9 seed and the 10-11? Approx. zilch.
 
I feel like we're dancing on the head of a pin here

Again, not easily. Let's says as you put it before Lauri is difference between -2 and +2 - 55 % and 45 % (and that's likely a bit too much). The chances of going 1-5 as the favorite (with Lauri (or JC)) are ~6 %. The chances as the dog (with Lauri out) are ~13 %. Most often you'll go 3-3, no matter what.

Resting Lauri on b2bs for injury prevention etc. down the stretch, smart. Resting him for lottery purposes, very unlikely to make any difference.

Obviously trading all the vets + not getting back anyone decent changes things much more. But then again Jazz/DA made it quite clear in the McMahon piece that he won't make any trades for or even think about trades simply for the purpose of advancing in the lottery.

And really, what's the value between the 8-9 seed and the 10-11? Approx. zilch.

Do you think teams are better or worse when they dont play their best players? Simple question
This statement by you “Resting him for lottery purposes, very unlikely to make any difference.” Makes me think that you think a team is the same good without their best players. Which is weird.


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Do you think teams are better or worse when they dont play their best players? Simple question
This statement by you “Resting him for lottery purposes, very unlikely to make any difference.” Makes me think that you think a team is the same good without their best players. Which is weird.
If you've read a single message in this conversation, you'd know the answer. In that example just one player (Lauri) makes a massive difference, swinging a game from 2pt favorite to 2pt dog. However, that difference doesn't magically translate to a 10 game losing streak or whatever.

You take out Lauri and the dog probably still goes 3-3. You keep Lauri in and the favorite still goes 3-3. Going 1-5 is very unlikely.
 
Last night the Mavs would've probably been a 1-2 pt dog if they had everyone (incl. Luka) playing and hadn't yet made the trade. Now they were 9pt dogs.

IF you thought that they were much, much worse than that and should've been 20pt dogs, guaranteed a loss, then surely you fleeced Vegas?
 
If you've read a single message in this conversation, you'd know the answer. In that example just one player (Lauri) makes a massive difference, swinging a game from 2pt favorite to 2pt dog. However, that difference doesn't magically translate to a 10 game losing streak or whatever.

You take out Lauri and the dog probably still goes 3-3. You keep Lauri in and the favorite still goes 3-3. Going 1-5 is very unlikely.

So with Lauri we go 3-3 and without lauri we go 3-3 but lauri makes a massive difference in swinging games. Interesting
3-3 seems to not be a massive difference from 3-3.


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I feel like we're dancing on the head of a pin here :)

Again, not easily. Let's says as you put it before Lauri is difference between -2 and +2 - 55 % and 45 % (and that's likely a bit too much). The chances of going 1-5 as the favorite (with Lauri (or JC)) are ~6 %. The chances as the dog (with Lauri out) are ~13 %. Most often you'll go 3-3, no matter what.
Too much maths... no good players make no win... sorry its science.
Resting Lauri on b2bs for injury prevention etc. down the stretch, smart. Resting him for lottery purposes, very unlikely to make any difference.
There are often little dings or exhaustion that players fight through... those are the games you rest him. If he has no legitimate reason he plays.
Obviously trading all the vets + not getting back anyone decent changes things much more. But then again Jazz/DA made it quite clear in the McMahon piece that he won't make any trades for or even think about trades simply for the purpose of advancing in the lottery.

And really, what's the value between the 8-9 seed and the 10-11? Approx. zilch.
For someone who is great at math you suck at math. The difference between 8-9 and 10-11 is substantial and completely quantifiable with certainty. You have a 20-25% chance at a top 4 pick vs. 10-14% chance... its literally 2x better odds.

You can send one guy to the free throw line for one free throw and you win at $1M . You sending Jakob Poeltl or Steph Curry? I get Steph since the difference is zilch. You get Poeltl... fair deal?
 
So with Lauri we go 3-3 and without lauri we go 3-3 but lauri makes a massive difference in swinging games. Interesting
3-3 seems to not be a massive difference from 3-3.


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Lauri is actually a 10 point swing guy based on on/off numbers.
 
Getting to 5th gives us a 42% chance at top 4 // 10% chance at #1 overall
Getting to 6th gives us a 37% chance at top 4 / 9% chance at #1 overall
 
But apparently 10 points isn’t significant enough to effect the outcome of games.


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I picked 4 points because the way Vegas sets lines there are very few guys that are a 10 point swing player. If you tell me instead of Lauri for 32 minutes I am getting Gay and KO for an additional 32 minutes... I will tell you 10 points is not enough. In one individual sample/game anything can happen.

If we are playing an exact replica of our team in a 6 game set on a neutral floor and for 3 of those games on team is disadvantaged by not having Lauri and the same team also misses JC for 3 games I have a hard time seeing the most likely result as 3-3.
 
So with Lauri we go 3-3 and without lauri we go 3-3 but lauri makes a massive difference in swinging games. Interesting
3-3 seems to not be a massive difference from 3-3.
Maths. Hard. Me no like.

For someone who is great at math you suck at math. The difference between 8-9 and 10-11 is substantial and completely quantifiable with certainty. You have a 20-25% chance at a top 4 pick vs. 10-14% chance... its literally 2x better odds.
Yes. And it's very likely you end up with the 8-11 pick in both cases.

Lauri is actually a 10 point swing guy based on on/off numbers.
Again. If you believe that, you're surely rolling in money, because Vegas and every bettor disagrees with you. You could make millions and millions in only one season!

Luka is 12 points on/off. Add the rest that were missing. That has to be Mavs a 20pt dog. Surely you put the house on the Jazz?
 
I picked 4 points because the way Vegas sets lines there are very few guys that are a 10 point swing player. If you tell me instead of Lauri for 32 minutes I am getting Gay and KO for an additional 32 minutes... I will tell you 10 points is not enough. In one individual sample/game anything can happen.

If we are playing an exact replica of our team in a 6 game set on a neutral floor and for 3 of those games on team is disadvantaged by not having Lauri and the same team also misses JC for 3 games I have a hard time seeing the most likely result as 3-3.

Exactly

I too think that lauri missing games would have a big effect on our win loss record.
I think he is the reason we arent at the bottom of the standings currently.


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So with Lauri we go 3-3 and without lauri we go 3-3 but lauri makes a massive difference in swinging games. Interesting
3-3 seems to not be a massive difference from 3-3.


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It is way huger than you think. I would even go as far as to say yuge, and I don't say that lightly.
 
Maths. Hard. Me no like.


Yes. And it's very likely you end up with the 8-11 pick in both cases.
Yup... but guess what the upside of getting lucky is? Definitely worth losing a couple meaningless games. Give me the investment with 2x the chance at a massive return thank you.
Again. If you believe that, you're surely rolling in money, because Vegas and every bettor disagrees with you. You could make millions and millions in only one season!
Luka is 12 points on/off. Add the rest that were missing. That has to be Mavs a 20pt dog. Surely you put the house on the Jazz?

Yes I would bet the house on a line that big in a single game sample...
 
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