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Its Time to Tank

Really easy way to improve the roster quickly. Play your best players instead of your worst players.

Boom done. That was easy.

Lauri is a win now piece
Sexton is a win now piece
Clarkson is a win now piece
KO is a win now piece.
Kessler is a win now piece.

Huh, that kind of looks like a starting lineup.

Draft some good roatation players to add to ochai. Trade a few picks for some good players. Grab a piece or 2 in free agency.

Lauri happy, jazz easily in the playoffs. Everybody happy.







Well everybody except for tremendous downside anyway.
 
fishonjazz said:
Really easy way to improve the roster quickly. Play your best players instead of your worst players.

Boom done. That was easy.

Lauri is a win now piece
Sexton is a win now piece
Clarkson is a win now piece
KO is a win now piece.
Kessler is a win now piece.

Huh, that kind of looks like a starting lineup.

Draft some good roatation players to add to ochai. Trade a few picks for some good players. Grab a piece or 2 in free agency.

Lauri happy, jazz easily in the playoffs. Everybody happy.







Well everybody except for tremendous downside anyway.
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We certainly aren't guaranteed to make the playoffs next year but what I will guarantee is that we will have a nice core group of young players with a lot of upside that will be ready to make some serious noise in 2 years. For me next year is just about solidifying a 7 or 8 man core going forward that can grow together. Right now for me we only have 2 clear pieces in Lauri and Walker along with 3 strong maybes in Sexton, Ochai and THT.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Do I have to do everything around here?
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Thing is, you arent doing anything. You are not contributing to the general discussion (constructively), but instead trying to start your own ones.

If 98% of posters here and 100% of media sees a bright future and you are swimming against a current that strong, maybe you are swimming the wrong way?
 
HermanG said:
Thing is, you arent doing anything. You are not contributing to the general discussion (constructively)
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That's not true and you know it. Everything in here is just opinions, and mine are just as valid (or not) as anyone else's. Let's not pretend like there's some cabal of expert armchair GM's who have the power to define the "correct" line of thinking for a given situation.

See, I'm a hardcore anti-tanker and that will never change. I understand that alone makes me really unpopular now that pretty much everyone (you included) has given up and gone over to the dark side. I'd rather quit following basketball altogether than start cheering for losses. I don't care what the context is.

I happen to think that Ainge made a conscious choice at the deadine that more or less thrashed the next couple of seasons (at least). We could have been buyers, traded for reinforcements (God knows we had the assets) and pushed hard for a playoff run. That was a legit path that could have been taken.

But as we all know, DA preferred to start a tank even though he had a young All-NBA guy already on the roster, breathing fire. That's pretty much unheard of. You don't start to tank when you already have the most important building blocks in place. It was a bitch move. A scared move. This was the moment where I realized Ainge is an old man who's lost his mojo. And the armchair GM's are going along, having convinced themselves that we would have been swept in the 1st round or whatever. It's just a coping mechanism.

It's the consequences of this choice down the road that I'm especially interested in, and it ties to my post above that started this latest **** show. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Unless we hit an absolute jackpot in the draft or manage (against all odds) to swing a couple of big deals for immediate difference makers in the offseason, I believe Ainge's deadline decision will come back to haunt us in a big way. There's a real chance DA will have to trade Lauri sooner rather than later because he doesn't want to continue losing in the middle of his prime and would bolt in free agency.

After that, we're suddenly the Rockets. And it all started when Ainge didn't have the balls to push down the gas pedal when he had the chance.
 
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Tremendous Upside said:
I happen to think that Ainge made a conscious choice at the deadine that more or less thrashed the next couple of seasons (at least). We could have been buyers, traded for reinforcements (God knows we had the assets) and pushed hard for a playoff run. That was a legit path that could have been taken.
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Herein lies the problem with your approach.

The goal of this season was to see what we got. Evaluate and develop. You are the one talking about moving the goal post midseason... which is insanely hard and risky to do. And it wasn't "adding 1 guy to the bench" scenario... it was essentially "find legit #1 or #2 and few other starter level guys on the fly" type of situation.

DA didn't trash any season... not even this one. He removed pieces that didn't fit and turned out the next guys up weren't much of a downgrade to the team play despite being objectively worse players. Sure he didn't do the win-now moves you were hoping for, but becoming contenders in first year of a rebuild is short-sighted fools gold if anything.
 
HermanG said:
Herein lies the problem with your approach.

The goal of this season was to see what we got. Evaluate and develop. You are the one talking about moving the goal post midseason... which is insanely hard and risky to do. And it wasn't "adding 1 guy to the bench" scenario... it was essentially "find legit #1 or #2 and few other starter level guys on the fly" type of situation.

DA didn't trash any season... not even this one. He removed pieces that didn't fit and turned out the next guys up weren't much of a downgrade to the team play despite being objectively worse players. Sure he didn't do the win-now moves you were hoping for, but becoming contenders in first year of a rebuild is short-sighted fools gold if anything.
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But that's what I'm saying. It was a tactical choice - of a kind. If you see this season as purely an evaluation period, by all means stick to your guns at the deadline. Obviously the path we chose can be defended from that point of view.

But it's crucial to realize that a choice comes with a price. People are acting like being sellers at the deadline pretty much had no downsides at all since "we would have lost in the 1st round anyway". I think they're dead wrong. Not only did we miss out on some important playoff experience for our young building blocks, but we also set the tone for the next couple of seasons, as I laid out above. Since the draft is a total crapshoot and the FA market doesn't look great this year - certainly not if you're the Utah Jazz instead of Miami or NY or LA - a lot of things hinge on what Lauri's gonna do and how he sees the future. And you have to be dumb as a rock to think his career season going down the drain won't have an effect on his thinking. That's one part of the price we're paying now.

Once again... Ainge better hope we're hitting that super unlikely jackpot in the draft or he's able to find the cojones (and targets) to improve this team in the offseason. If not, it's gonna get ugly when we run back essentially this same team plus a few rookies.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
But that's what I'm saying. It was a tactical choice - of a kind. If you see this season as purely an evaluation period, by all means stick to your guns at the deadline. Obviously the path we chose can be defended from that point of view.

But it's crucial to realize that a choice comes with a price. People are acting like being sellers at the deadline pretty much had no downsides at all since "we would have lost in the 1st round anyway". I think they're dead wrong. Not only did we miss out on some important playoff experience for our young building blocks, but we also set the tone for the next couple of seasons, as I laid out above. Since the draft is a total crapshoot and the FA market doesn't look great this year - certainly not if you're the Utah Jazz instead of Miami or NY or LA - a lot of things hinge on what Lauri's gonna do and how he sees the future. And you have to be dumb as a rock to think his career season going down the drain won't have an effect on his thinking. That's one part of the price we're paying now.

Once again... Ainge better hope we're hitting that super unlikely jackpot in the draft or he's able to find the cojones (and targets) to improve this team in the offseason. If not, it's gonna get ugly when we run back essentially this same team plus a few rookies.
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What were the key trades available that we missed out on? Josh Hart? Jalen McDanies? Gary Payton II? Jakob Poeltl? James Wiseman? Saddiq Bey?

Midseason markets were dead and prices were stupid. Wizards, Bulls and Raptors didn't end up selling. Most other teams under the line were already too young to sell. I dont see any trades made that made me feel like "damn I would have loved to see that guy here".... except maybe Hart.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
. If not, it's gonna get ugly when we run back essentially this same team plus a few rookies.
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Running back essentially the same team plus a few rookies results in an easy playoff birth.

Look if the jazz win today and okc and Dallas lose we are back in the playoff hunt (we would be in the playin already). While never ever playing 2 starters and holding out lauri a lot and after trading 4 rotational players for nothing and trying to lose.

If we played Sexton and Clarkson and Lauri as much as we could and were trying to win then we would the 5th or 6th seed right now.

Add more talent to the current roster next year and you think we get worse. That's some tremendous downside.
 
If the Jazz lose out there is a chance they end up at the 8th seed or tied for it.

Have Orlando/Indiana/Washington been pulling tank shenanigans? They are all unfortunately eliminated from the play-in.

Also, are ties in the lottery odds resolved with coin flips or are the odds just split between the tied teams?
 
NUMBERICA said:
If the Jazz lose out there is a chance they end up at the 8th seed or tied for it.

Have Orlando/Indiana/Washington been pulling tank shenanigans? They are all unfortunately eliminated from the play-in.

Also, are ties in the lottery odds resolved with coin flips or are the odds just split between the tied teams?
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Odds are split positioning is the coin flip.
 
gamefa said:
I'll still be pretty happy with the 9th pick to be honest. I think we can get a really good player.
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For sure. I just really want Hendricks and I don't know what team couldn't use his prospective profile. I think the odds are good he goes at 8 (or maybe before).

The other thing with getting to #8 is to be in prime position in the event someone reaches in the top-7 and one of the basically consensus top-7 mocked guys slips.
 
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