Isaiah 1:13
Well-Known Member
Total incompetence combined with the reversal of the originally correct half court violation call on Sabonis.
Game Thread Jan 03, 2023 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs Kings
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Added to Calendar: 01-03-23
No Markkanen was money against Vassell in the Spurs game at the point of attack... so Hardy probably genuinely thought he was our best option. Shouldnt be though.. I feel like Lauri made a mistake as he was never gonna outright stop him and should have forced Fox inside there as Vando was there to help. But we are getting burned by guards every game, so our primary PoA defenders are trash... NAW got stuck on screens early in the 4th while Clarkson, Beasley and Conley just got outright burned by Fox.
Olynyk help on the rim was non-existent.. so yeah if Kessler is in the challenge might have been better.
Here is the play again.. pay attention to how KO plays there:
Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com
A video and Shot Chart interface with the ability to filter down to specific on court events and granular details.
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
This. I have been saying it since last summer. And then we play Rudy 0 - 4 Gay 20 minutes. It has been the most baffling part of the season.
Yeah that was a trash moment by the refs. It was so obvious.
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
Fairnuf. I have been thinking we are trying to hifhlight him so we can boost his value.. but at this point, thats the only thing that makes sense.
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
Bullsharts...
We have been batting WAY above average as far as finishing goes throughout the season.
Close games can go either way due to:
- Teams making adjustments
- Dumb decisions by players (aka ball - hogging and chucking in spite of instructions)
- A call here or there by refs
- A slump (which all teams go through)
- Unlucky bounces
- Matchups
- Scheduling (is back to backs, road matches, late flights, etc)
And perhaps the fact that we have no All Stars on the team other than Mike Conley who was only voted an all star replacement after an injury. Our closers are JC, Markaanen, and Beasley. But a lot of our close wins came off of shots unlikely heroes like KO, Fonteccchio, others.
Cut the team some slack.
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
Before the season, my wish was that we would go 0 - 70 with the losses starting by 30, then 20, then 10, then by 5 points or less on buzzer beaters. Then start winning for the last 10 games.
These are the types of games we should love. But... it sucks nonetheless.
These are the types of games we should love. But... it sucks nonetheless.
Isaiah 1:13
Well-Known Member
Hard to see what Olynyk was up to on my little smartphone screen and not sure I take your point. Fox is a helluva lot quicker and more crafty than Vassell as well I imagine.No Markkanen was money against Vassell in the Spurs game at the point of attack... so Hardy probably genuinely thought he was our best option. Shouldnt be though.. I feel like Lauri made a mistake as he was never gonna outright stop him and should have forced Fox inside there as Vando was there to help. But we are getting burned by guards every game, so our primary PoA defenders are trash... NAW got stuck on screens early in the 4th while Clarkson, Beasley and Conley just got outright burned by Fox.
Olynyk help on the rim was non-existent.. so yeah if Kessler is in the challenge might have been better.
Here is the play again.. pay attention to how KO plays there:
Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com
A video and Shot Chart interface with the ability to filter down to specific on court events and granular details.www.nba.com
hardy didn't call lauri to guard fox, it was barnes who initiated the switch so fox he can have lauri instead of vando. this was sacs gameplan. don't you think fox have better chances on vando than lauri? its easy to foul bait vando and lauri is a much better defender but they picked lauri instead. fox was too quick. this was the same case with the spurs. my guess here is that maybe they sensed lauri was gassed.
Against Spurs though Vassell went like 2/7 against Lauri.. and Lauri was on him the whole 4th. The primary reason we came back in that game was that we got those stops.
Edit:
Yeah I checked the replay and we definitely called Vando on Fox instead of Lauri but we also gave them that switch kinda easily. I dont like that.. but still I think if Lauri gets him inside or KO shows up on the baseline we might get a stop there. Fox forced his way to the outside to be able to drive cleanly and Lauri was left on an island there.
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Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
Another awful game. I don't care about moral victories. We suck now. Random thoughts:
- The FT line has become Lauri's second home of late, but I don't like some of the recent trends in his game or how we're incapable of responding when teams double him. The first thing that's becoming obvious is that his torrid 3pt shooting is over for now. He's still been able to make some shots, but Lauri's known to be a streaky guy in the past and right now his shot is way off. Even his release looks different than it did a month ago. He struggled to start the season as well, but back then our ball movement was on another level and Markkanen was able to feast off cuts and low post mismatches.
Another worrying issue is that every team has scouted his curls to the middle by now. Everyone's anticipating it, so Lauri's meeting a wall of defenders every time he receives the ball, and teams are taking away his passing lanes to the corner or the perimeter. That's easy to do because Markkanen constantly uses a very predictable route on those curls - he doesn't like to stop, pivot, do a crossover or any of that. He's also angling his curls away from the basket too often. In short, Lauri is getting the ball in spots where he doesn't have any advantage, and that's something of a killer for him. He's not a guy who can create good shots out of thin air when he gets the rock against a set defense. This is something he just has to get better at if he wants to be a star.
- Let's end the charade - Mike Conley can't play NBA defense anymore. It's becoming embarrassing. Fox went past him all game like he wasn't there. You can't beat father time, but Mike doesn't really even put in any effort at this stage. He knows he can't stop anyone so he's stopped trying. Kessler and the other bigs have a steady stream of dynamic scoring guards coming at them in 2-on-1 situations, and that's just an automatic bucket in the NBA. I think we literally have the worst backcourt defense in the League - Conley, Clarkson, Sexton and Beasley all suck and Agbaji won't be helping. His awareness is below average and the NBA game is moving way too fast for him.
- Kessler has to start developing a low post go-to move, pronto. He can't be a zero in half court offense. It's just way too big of a burden for the guys who can actually score some.
- Hardy is tanking.
- The FT line has become Lauri's second home of late, but I don't like some of the recent trends in his game or how we're incapable of responding when teams double him. The first thing that's becoming obvious is that his torrid 3pt shooting is over for now. He's still been able to make some shots, but Lauri's known to be a streaky guy in the past and right now his shot is way off. Even his release looks different than it did a month ago. He struggled to start the season as well, but back then our ball movement was on another level and Markkanen was able to feast off cuts and low post mismatches.
Another worrying issue is that every team has scouted his curls to the middle by now. Everyone's anticipating it, so Lauri's meeting a wall of defenders every time he receives the ball, and teams are taking away his passing lanes to the corner or the perimeter. That's easy to do because Markkanen constantly uses a very predictable route on those curls - he doesn't like to stop, pivot, do a crossover or any of that. He's also angling his curls away from the basket too often. In short, Lauri is getting the ball in spots where he doesn't have any advantage, and that's something of a killer for him. He's not a guy who can create good shots out of thin air when he gets the rock against a set defense. This is something he just has to get better at if he wants to be a star.
- Let's end the charade - Mike Conley can't play NBA defense anymore. It's becoming embarrassing. Fox went past him all game like he wasn't there. You can't beat father time, but Mike doesn't really even put in any effort at this stage. He knows he can't stop anyone so he's stopped trying. Kessler and the other bigs have a steady stream of dynamic scoring guards coming at them in 2-on-1 situations, and that's just an automatic bucket in the NBA. I think we literally have the worst backcourt defense in the League - Conley, Clarkson, Sexton and Beasley all suck and Agbaji won't be helping. His awareness is below average and the NBA game is moving way too fast for him.
- Kessler has to start developing a low post go-to move, pronto. He can't be a zero in half court offense. It's just way too big of a burden for the guys who can actually score some.
- Hardy is tanking.
Scape Goat
Member
Trade that useless Markkanen. He does nothing right according to this comment.
Weak, no iq, can’t pass, can’t dribble,can’t post, can’tshoot etc.
The only thing he seems to do ok is tie his shoes.
Dude Lauri is fine. Every team is clamping him down, doubling him and scouting his tendencies obviously, but he is still putting up way better numbers than he was at the start of the year. It was that Chicago game where his 3PT shooting hot streak started, and he has had two sub 20 games since (18 and 19). Even last three games where he has gone 5/21 from 3 but still scored 36, 29 and 28 points.
I dont think his 3PT shot is as badly off as you say... but lets wait an see. Seems to bounce from the inside iron more than outside or airball. He does seam a bit streaky as obviously at the start of the year he was off and then all of a sudden he seemingly couldnt miss. One thing that I thought was weird earlier this year was his poor FT shooting considering how well he shoots from literally everywhere. Lately he has been on fire from the line though. I guess it could be "you are what you practice" type of thing?
But I 100% agree about the curl. Kings took that away pretty well. You cannot be predictable in the NBA. They need to find other complementary meal ticket plays to open that up again.
Jazz executing this tank to perfection
Korisfani
Guest
Lauri starts the season off shooting threes at 30+ % => he's never gonna be a consistent 40+ shooter from beyond the arc.
Lauri shoots 50+ % for more than a month => he's too reliant on the three-ball and needs to get back to dunking.
Lauri has two off-nights from 3 => IT'S OVER!
Lauri gets to the FT line 10+ times every other night => he's too predictable and other teams have solved him
Lauri scores more in the 1st half in a few games and not as much in the 2nd => he's passive and needs to go and get the ball
Lauri scores in the 4th and keeps the team in games and is perfect from the stripe in the clutch => Not enough!!!
Not enough rebounds. He's the guy that needs to get the deciding rebound. He needs to get the decisive stop, on anyone and everyone. He needs to pass for open shots that others can't miss.
I mean... We can debate whether Lauri is a "star" player right now or not. I would say 27/8 and doing it night after night is a star player.
And then we can discuss if he's gonna be a "superstar" one day. But he's not even half-way through his first season as a star and the team's #1. And there isn't going to be a player that combines Wilt, MJ and Steph every night. Even superstars aren't perfect in every single aspect and on every possession.
Lauri shoots 50+ % for more than a month => he's too reliant on the three-ball and needs to get back to dunking.
Lauri has two off-nights from 3 => IT'S OVER!
Lauri gets to the FT line 10+ times every other night => he's too predictable and other teams have solved him
Lauri scores more in the 1st half in a few games and not as much in the 2nd => he's passive and needs to go and get the ball
Lauri scores in the 4th and keeps the team in games and is perfect from the stripe in the clutch => Not enough!!!
Not enough rebounds. He's the guy that needs to get the deciding rebound. He needs to get the decisive stop, on anyone and everyone. He needs to pass for open shots that others can't miss.
I mean... We can debate whether Lauri is a "star" player right now or not. I would say 27/8 and doing it night after night is a star player.
And then we can discuss if he's gonna be a "superstar" one day. But he's not even half-way through his first season as a star and the team's #1. And there isn't going to be a player that combines Wilt, MJ and Steph every night. Even superstars aren't perfect in every single aspect and on every possession.
Don’t let some of these guys get to you. Really the biggest bright spot of this season has been Lauri. We aren’t in any of these games with him. He’s been averaging 26/8 for his last 21 games. He’s an all-star and is helping accelerate the rebuild. Anyone complaining about Lauri has nothing better to talk about.
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but his high point totals are not turning into wins. That's not ideal (to me - I understand that tankers are loving all this). Not saying it's his fault, but it is what it is. The debate on "empty stats" is ancient in the NBA. If you put up big numbers but the team keeps losing, is it because your teammates are not pulling their weight or because there's something lacking in your game? Are you making them better?
Fantastic perimeter shooting has had a large part in making Lauri pretty much the most efficient scorer in the NBA this season. And it's also kept the Jazz competitive, since his gravity improves the spacing a ton. He doesn't even really have to do anything to keep a defender glued to him.
I think this losing streak alone already killed his AS game chances, and putting up a ton of bricks from the arc will just Finnish the job (see what I did there?)
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Yes, our wins and losses are solely on Lauri. If we didn’t have him we’d be the worst team in the league.
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
I never said that. Currently, stealth tanking by Hardy is probably the biggest culprit for all the losses, along with the disgusting perimeter defense.