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Jazz acquire NAW and Juancho Hernangomez for Ingles, Hughes, and two 2nd round picks.

Handlogten's Heros said:
There is a chance that NAW is worse than having an empty roster spot. It’s fine… it’s a stab in the dark though.

Portland really did not want him and his salary for next year. NO forced him into the trade. Zach Lowe and Bobby marks talked about it. Portland made NO waive the physical on CJ so they could speed the deal up to get off of NAW. This is EXTREMELY RARE per Bobby. Especially with a player that is owed 100M like CJ. They didn’t want the transaction to get slowed down and be stuck with NAW.

Not saying he can’t be a player but a couple teams really wanted no part of him. So we stepped in and saved some money… I am very dubious of the reports about how we will play him and they love him yada yada yada. Zach even said Wuin will have a very hard time with how he plays.

So I’m not bitching about what they did. I am bitching that their stated claims for why they did what the did are dubious at best… if y’all wanna drink the kool aid go ahead. I’m fine with what we did… we don’t have a whole lot to do much else. I just hope the play Forrest house and JB rather than stoking Ainge’s ego by throwing NAW out there. I like how we are playing right now and hopefully that doesn’t get disrupted. Mothball NAW until next year… let him see how we play and hopefully he helps next year.
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Agree with this 100%. He can play in the g league until we see what we have. But my fear is he gets immediate PT for those exact reasons and we all end up regretting it.
 
whatthe said:
Portland may want Joe and would offer him a decent contract during the summer. We may have lost Joe. :(
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Ha... all the birds rights stuff was complete nonsense. To keep his bird rights it costs them like 15M in cap space that they plan to use. Are they going to sign him for 15m to rehab all year.

Ingles will get a minimum deal. I'm not even sure he reports. They may not waive him because they may not want to pay someone to come in and fill his roster spot. He will choose from spots that offer him a minimum deal but he has 12 months of rehab in his future and another couple months to get into playing shape. He may not come back but it won't be because he got a big offer.

Also we will never lose Joe... he's always in our hearts and minds... @Rubashov actually keeps a little bit of Joe in his balls too. Joe is eternal.
 
Elizah Huge said:
You really said this part in response to me? Lol. I have been just as critical of the front office as you have been. DL ****ed up around the edges, his cap guy ****ing sucks and we have burned picks to get out of **** situation he put us in.

I like picking up NAW. Gaining a potential asset for someone we all thought was going to be salary dumped anyway is not bad in my opinion. Especially with how empty our asset cupboard is at the moment. We haven’t even seen the rotation yet or seen how he has played for us. I love Butler a lot like you do and it’s criminal he doesn’t play more but give the guy a chance first.
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Giving him a chance means limiting someone else's chances. This is a zero sum game.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Giving him a chance means limiting someone else's chances. This is a zero sum game.
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Yes now we have 3 projects to try to get PT for instead of just 2. This is not a better situation, because one of them is getting short-changed, no two ways about it.
 
idiot said:
I'm a little surprised we're getting so hung up on the PR aspect surrounding this trade. No matter what Tony Jones or Quin Snyder or anyone else may have said, everyone can easily enough see what this trade for what it is: an attempt to save some money and at least recoup a flier because Joe's contract didn't prove to be useful for anything else that would have helped the team in an overall sense. I don't think even Elizah is saying that NAW should just automatically be plugged into the rotation.

The PR is just standard procedure for new acquisitions, like when Brad Stevens effused about Bol Bol a couple of weeks before he cut him loose.
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It's one thing to say "he's a guy we like" and another to say "he will be on the court immediately". I might even be cool with it if all damn year I have heard these guys lol at fans wanting to see JB play. "lolz the Jazz are in win now mode... they don't have time for development projects." And now we get NAW... who might be the biggest development project on the roster and the message is he will be in the rotation... like why?

NAW is dead last in the league in EFG%... last. Tools are great and all... but you can have great tools and give them to someone who doesn't know how to use them and they are worthless. I just don't see why they either have to lie and say he will be a rotation piece immediately or why they will try to force this project down our throats to show that they made a basketball move and not a financial move. I'd just appreciate some consistency.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yes now we have 3 projects to try to get PT for instead of just 2. This is not a better situation, because one of them is getting short-changed, no two ways about it.
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If I am Forrest and JB and saw the report that he will be in the rotation immediately I'd be coming into practice a little hot. Might be good for them who knows. JB will defend his 4 minutes every 5th game with his damn life.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
Hollinger in the Athletic called our trade the most underwhelming move of the trade deadline, a tax move, and an admission that we can’t hang with Golden State or Phoenix.

Perfect! ****ing BYU ownership. Lol.
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No, that can’t be right. I’m seeing our local guys calling out the stupid moves other franchises are making and suggesting it’s silly to criticize our moves. Other franchises have dumb guys that make dumb moves. People don’t get to the top being stupid, unless it’s every other franchise. Then it’s totally possible for people to make dumb mistakes and bad moves. But us? C’mon, man! You don’t make bad moves when you’re at the top!
 
infection said:
No, that can’t be right. I’m seeing our local guys calling out the stupid moves other franchises are making and suggesting it’s silly to criticize our moves. Other franchises have dumb guys that make dumb moves. People don’t get to the top being stupid, unless it’s every other franchise. Then it’s totally possible for people to make dumb mistakes and bad moves. But us? C’mon, man! You don’t make bad moves when you’re at the top!
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I really like JZ. He has a few quotes about NAW that suggest its a long term type move... which makes sense. He's a good long-term process. He has to be completely reprogramed and also has to work on a couple skills. Its different than when Tony and others said he would play immediately... so I'm cool.

Hollinger is right... it is a little bit of a tell... I just didn't think there was a great win now move out there for us. Saving some money and getting a good long term prospect is okay. I get why some folks don't love it because we've been force fed that we are "TITLE CONTENDERS" but we are really "title contenders... kinda?" It's a dose of self awareness imo. I didn't have title expectations anymore so I'm fine.

Also when JZ leaves this offseason cuz Ryan wanted his Uncle Danny to run his billion dollar toy... Imma be pissed.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
Hollinger in the Athletic called our trade the most underwhelming move of the trade deadline, a tax move, and an admission that we can’t hang with Golden State or Phoenix.

Perfect! ****ing BYU ownership. Lol.
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Finally someone being honest and calling it for what it is. I completely agree with everything he said.

Most underwhelming trade: Utah. A team that was supposed to be all-in with this group used its Joe Ingles trade chip and future seconds to get … Nickeil Alexander-Walker and tax savings? That’s it????

Alexander-Walker might be redeemable as a backup 2, but his greatest utility to the Jazz seemed to be that he and Juancho Hernangomez combine to make $4.4 million less than the departed Ingles and Elijah Hughes, saving roughly $12 million in salary and luxury tax payments for the Jazz.

While the hopes of turning Ingles into a Jerami Grant or Harrison Barnes always seemed a longshot – Utah’s next eligible first for trades is in 2026 – hope remained that Ingles’s expiring deal and another small contract or two could bring back more than … this. Instead of “all-in”, it felt more like a resignation that the Jazz can’t hang with Golden State and Phoenix.
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Jingled said:
Finally someone being honest and calling it for what it is.
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Andy is the only in market guy who will give you honesty.... nationally everyone is like WTF?

The Zach and Bobby interaction talking about NAW was pretty telling to me about what Portland and NOP felt about him. Maybe they are wrong... it was a cash considerations trade that happened to come with a semi-intriguing prospect.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Andy is the only in market guy who will give you honesty.... nationally everyone is like WTF?

The Zach and Bobby interaction talking about NAW was pretty telling to me about what Portland and NOP felt about him. Maybe they are wrong... it was a cash considerations trade that happened to come with a semi-intriguing prospect.
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My bet is it was literally the best deal they could put together monetarily. Literally anything else was less of savings. I am sure they crunched the numbers and came back with a spreadsheet showing all the implications and how this one deal saved them $150k more than the next best deal, also involving an obscure underperforming youngster and/or an aging guy on his way out on a small contract. And the third one they considered was $235k more expensive. And so on. Until they got to the deal that added a legit player, but raised our tax cost by $120k so that was a definite no. This was anything but an all-in move.
 


And he still managed to make it to the game that night. Prior to that, I’d never seen anyone make it to their team (publicly) in <48 hours.
 
LogGrad98 said:
My bet is it was literally the best deal they could put together monetarily. Literally anything else was less of savings. I am sure they crunched the numbers and came back with a spreadsheet showing all the implications and how this one deal saved them $150k more than the next best deal, also involving an obscure underperforming youngster and/or an aging guy on his way out on a small contract. And the third one they considered was $235k more expensive. And so on. Until they got to the deal that added a legit player, but raised our tax cost by $120k so that was a definite no. This was anything but an all-in move.
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Maybe not quite to that level but yeah this was about the max amount of savings they could have gotten without just dumping Joe into cap space. If OKC said he send me those 2 seconds plus another second and we will take Ingles into space we'd have jumped for damned joy and saved all Ryan's monies. This was a nice secondary option because we can talk about how much we really love this guy and how we swapped an older guy for a younger guy.

The kicker will be when we get Juan to leave a little money on the table and take a buyout... then we save even more of Ryan's monies.
 
Here’s a suggestion for NAW:

Hit the weights hard. Might be better to aim for being a 3 and he could use the strength anyway.
 
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