Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[Handlogten's Heros]

It’s a staggering amount to pay a guy to make you incredibly worse.

Which makes me think…

We should be fine on that front once we offload Don and the vets... Westbrook might make a 15 win team better because he still has his good nights. It would be so toxic though... just can't do it. We need a good vibes, good development, ****** team.

 

[infection]

Trade Westbrook for Hayward.

 

[default]

You mean you want to take on Julius Randle's 4- year contract?

Actually that wouldn't even do it, since Randle only earns about half of what Westbrook does. But the basic idea is the same. We'd only get assets back for Westbrook at the deadline if we took on an/a set of egregiously large and long contracts. I don't think we have that in mind. Could be wrong, however. As they say, you have to spend the money somewhere.

I didn't have anyone specific in mind. I was just thinking of the genius DA would be if he could get draft picks for (1) acquiring Westbrook. (2) He helps the tank. Then (3) just a few months later DA gets another pick or two to let someone else pay him for the last couple expiring months to clear salary space for their own big move next summer. I get it is wishful thinking, but it is not impossible for Danny.

 

[idiot]

Trade Westbrook for Hayward.

Do you mean a Hornets-Lakers trade now? Or the Jazz get Westbrook and then do it at the deadline, say?

In either case:

• the salaries don't work as a one-for-one trade
• it becomes very tricky to even figure out who the Hornets would add to make the salaries work, given their salary structure
• Hornets may not even need Westbrook's expiring to have plenty of cap room next year if they want it (if I understand their salaries correctly)

 

[idiot]

PS -- I think the only way the Hornets would be motivated to trade for Westbrook and give some valuable things back in return (in addition to Hayward) is if they have a super-large-salary free agent in mind that they think they have a good chance at.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think Russ will likely not give back a lot or any. Blake had a wide market. Russ has little to no market unless he chills the hell out and shows he can be a bench guy. He may be able to repair his value but it will require eating so much pride... to date he has shown zero ability to do that. He may have to sit out for a year to get his head in the right space for the next phase of his career like Melo did.

And that's also giving back more because he got bout more than a single year.

 

[KqWIN]

There are levels to it obvi. Most fans that pay for seats couldn't tell you any trade rules etc. Hell when I sit next to a bunch of folks in the lower bowls I am constantly annoyed when people are screaming things that show how little they understand the rules of the game.

Most fans that pay for seats and watch games don't care about trade rules, team building, draft ect.....but what they do care about is the game that is being played that night. The NBA has become so "championship or bust" to the point that it has really diminished the day to day product. The NBA is about anything and everything except the game, and I think that's a really unfortunate consequence of championship or bust.

 

[stitches]

NOTHING of what Tony Jones has been reporting this off-season makes any sense. But it does sound like something the Jazz would want out there so they would get the best market for their players.

 

[KqWIN]

Uhh, didnt the league come off a great NBA Finals rating? TV ratings are just a single metric to judge popularity as well. If the NBA wasnt a highly successful league you wouldnt see franchise valuations skyrocketing like they are.

The transaction part of the NBA is part of the reason why they are so popular. People love the drama.

It was better than pandemic numbers, but not better than pre pandemic. The NBA is doing fine financially, but I do think the product is getting worse. You're right, people do love the drama. But the NBA has become a league where everything besides the actual basketball being played is the centerpiece. It's a reason why the games don't do well viewership wise, but NBA clips and memes do extraordinarily well. A big part of my enjoyment of the NBA was going to games regularly and enjoying the competition. Regardless of whether the NBA is doing well or poor in whatever measure, the NBA just isn't what it was in terms of attending/watching a basketball game and enjoying it for the basketball.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

b

two young players with all star potential and 3 picks?

Well, what exactly did Ainge ask for?

 

[stitches]

Why would this need to be a 3 team trade?

This makes no sense. If the Jazz wanted to do the LAL part of the deal they would have done it already. If they wanted to do the NYK part of the deal, they would have done it. This is not a deal where the Jazz need either team to do the deal. This seems like wet dream for NYK and LAL fans where they get to have everything they want and give up the bare minimum. Yeah... that totally seems like something Danny Ainge would do. Keep dreaming.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Most fans that pay for seats and watch games don't care about trade rules, team building, draft ect.....but what they do care about is the game that is being played that night. The NBA has become so "championship or bust" to the point that it has really diminished the day to day product. The NBA is about anything and everything except the game, and I think that's a really unfortunate consequence of championship or bust.

IDK... I think its in a pretty good spot. The other stuff is getting more shine but I don't think the games are an afterthought. I think the games are the biggest part of it... that is where the revenue is coming from (tv rights).

Ringz culture is a bit tiresome for sure... but that has always been a thing. I think more teams are trying to be competitive and that the league is actually pretty wide open. I think a lot of teams are pushing in because they think if things break the right way they could win a title.

I think our team would have stayed the course and figured it out if Don and Rudy had a great relationship and they felt like they had some additional runway. Part of it might be because of ringzzzz culture but I think the team had gone stale, had some toxic vibes, and had no great means of changing things around Rudy and Don.

IDK just some thoughts.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

NOTHING of what Tony Jones has been reporting this off-season makes any sense. But it does sound like something the Jazz would want out there so they would get the best market for their players.

I wonder if he is in on it or if he feels like he gets used a bit. I think it would be ridiculous to keep Don and the vets at this point.

 

[KqWIN]

IDK... I think its in a pretty good spot. The other stuff is getting more shine but I don't think the games are an afterthought. I think the games are the biggest part of it... that is where the revenue is coming from (tv rights).

Ringz culture is a bit tiresome for sure... but that has always been a thing. I think more teams are trying to be competitive and that the league is actually pretty wide open. I think a lot of teams are pushing in because they think if things break the right way they could win a title.

I think our team would have stayed the course and figured it out if Don and Rudy had a great relationship and they felt like they had some additional runway. Part of it might be because of ringzzzz culture but I think the team had gone stale, had some toxic vibes, and had no great means of changing things around Rudy and Don.

IDK just some thoughts.

I think the NBA is fine financially. I've always said that the TV viewership doesn't matter as much as people make it out to be when it comes to the league's overall health. The NBA will learn how to better monetize the internet traffic that they dominate, and entering the streaming wars will be a win for them no matter what. But what the TV viewership does tell you is how much people enjoy the games, and I to me the day to day product of the NBA has really fallen off a cliff. The problem with championship or bust is exactly what it says. If it's not the championship, it doesn't matter. The 82 game regular season hardly matters at all when it comes to the championship conversation, and it's an open thing now. Franchises don't seem to care, the players don't care, and I don't think hardcore fans care much either. It's all about the end goal, the championship. The regular season games don't have much consequence to the championship conversation. In fact, it's become the accepted opinion that emphasizing the regular season comes at a detriment to title hopes. Regular season play has continued to diverge from playoff basketball and it won't stop.

It's all relative of course. People do care about a random regular season game and everyone wants to win, but compared to other sports, the importance of each game is so diminished and it doesn't necessarily make the actual championship more exciting. The large discrepancy between the RS and Playoffs makes for a more boring conclusion IMO.

 

[Nate505]

If the Jazz don't get any potential talented players, next season is going to be awful. It will be the first season where I won't bother watching games for the most part.

 

[BENTLEY]

If the Jazz don't get any potential talented players, next season is going to be awful. It will be the first season where I won't bother watching games for the most part.

Last season was the season that about finished me off - which is why I’m pro blow-it-up (as DA appears to be doing). I’m much more likely to watch scrappy players almost win games, instead of aging vets almost win games.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We should be fine on that front once we offload Don and the vets... Westbrook might make a 15 win team better because he still has his good nights. It would be so toxic though... just can't do it. We need a good vibes, good development, ****** team.

I was joking. Mostly.

 

[NUMBERICA]

PS -- I think the only way the Hornets would be motivated to trade for Westbrook and give some valuable things back in return (in addition to Hayward) is if they have a super-large-salary free agent in mind that they think they have a good chance at.

Hayward might make us too good if we get Sexton, Grimes, and Toppin. I’m not kidding. And I’m not sure how much they would really send, though I would sure like our 2023 second back.

Maybe you just practice extreme load management with him, but Hayward is really good when he’s healthy.

 

[Nate505]

Last season was the season that about finished me off - which is why I’m pro blow-it-up (as DA appears to be doing). I’m much more likely to watch scrappy players almost win games, instead of aging vets almost win games.

Depends on the scrappy players. If it's players with some upside sure. If it's a bunch of glorified g-league talent, I'm not watching.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

From my understanding, releasing a player from a contract is a negotiation between two willing parties.

Both have to have a value add.

Westbrook may say, I dont care where I play or if I play. Just pay me every penny.

But if he wants to play outside of Utah, compete for a title, or something else then he can opt to negotiate down his contract for less if we are willing.

Pros for Utah... total payment goes down and more flexibility this season.

Pros for Westbrook... he can resign elsewhere to recoup some of what he gave up. He plays with a contender.

Being a mutual contract, I always pictured the negotiation to be very open to distinct options. I dont think there are tight rules about it so long as both parties agree. The league may have some rules that restrict teams / players.