Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[SoberasHotRod]

It is starting to get to the point where those Laker picks are getting WAYYY overrated. Lakers might end up being bad, but nobody needs to build them a roster AND pay Westbrook 50 million. There is a reason Indiana, who has been trying to trade Turner for 3 years, is turning their nose up at the deal.

We want to trade those guys for expiring contracts, so taking back Westbrook isn't really a burden for us. We also probably want to be able to trade multiple players for 1 in order to prepare for a Don trade. This helps us too.

I think this sentiment is mostly built out of spite for the Lakers, who seem stuck, and don't deserve a helping hand. I'm all for that sentiment, it's going to feel pretty awful if they win another title based on us helping them out.

Logically speaking, however, it really makes sense for both sides. If the Lakers can provide, unprotected picks that far in the future, it gets us a shot at a super premium pick vs the protected picks we would likely garner for our players individually.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Today is coming… just maybe not today

One day today it will hit like a ton of bricks

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Lakers are the number free agent destination. To say their future looks bleak is stupid when that is the case. To expect them to be bad in 5 years is a huge question mark.

Besides LeBron (which I know was huge) who exactly have they signed in the last 15 years? They’re the Knicks of the West when it comes to free agency. They are always a free agency premium destination in theory more than actuality. They were terrible in Kobe’s last years and pre-LeBron.

Players generally don’t want to go into a market alone. Even LA. So they need to get someone to team up with and need to be FA at the same time. They could pull a Heat Big Three type of move… I’ll bet against it. They lost out on Lemarcus Aldridge in embarrassing fashion. Maybe they can retool quickly once Lebron fades out… but the fact that it will likely be a slow fade might work well as they don’t ever save up the assets to retool quickly.

Even with Lebron they have hit the lotto twice.

The other factor here… FA don’t hit FA like they used to with all the extensions. They usually extend them get traded… if there is nothing in the cupboard to trade then how does LA fully participate in FA… like how the Clips got Kawhi and PG? Assume Lakers will always be good because of beaches and sunshine is stupid.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We want to trade those guys for expiring contracts, so taking back Westbrook isn't really a burden for us. We also probably want to be able to trade multiple players for 1 in order to prepare for a Don trade. This helps us too.

I think this sentiment is mostly built out of spite for the Lakers, who seem stuck, and don't deserve a helping hand. I'm all for that sentiment, it's going to feel pretty awful if they win another title based on us helping them out.

Logically speaking, however, it really makes sense for both sides. If the Lakers can provide, unprotected picks that far in the future, it gets us a shot at a super premium pick vs the protected picks we would likely garner for our players individually.

Agree…the premium to dumping Westbrook is somewhat real because of the size of the expiring… most teams just can’t accommodate it. It penalizes us in no way really because we aren’t trying to be good.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

One day today it will hit like a ton of bricks

September 6th is today.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Players generally don’t want to go into a market alone. Even LA. So they need to get someone to team up with and need to be FA at the same time. They could pull a Heat Big Three type of move… I’ll bet against it. They lost out on Lemarcus Aldridge in embarrassing fashion. Maybe they can retool quickly once Lebron fades out… but the fact that it will likely be a slow fade might work well as they don’t ever save up the assets to retool quickly.

Even with Lebron they have hit the lotto twice.

The other factor here… FA don’t hit FA like they used to with all the extensions. They usually extend them get traded… if there is nothing in the cupboard to trade then how does LA fully participate in FA… like how the Clips got Kawhi and PG? Assume Lakers will always be good because of beaches and sunshine is stupid.

2027 and 2029 are an eternity away, and so there are really too many possibilities to predict what will happen. There will be a cap jump and a new CBA between now and then.

I don't think this is what you are saying, and so I'm not arguing with you, but to disregard the advantage that LA has in building a team, based on their location would also be stupid.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

2027 and 2029 are an eternity away, and so there are really too many possibilities to predict what will happen. There will be a cap jump and a new CBA between now and then.

I don't think this is what you are saying, and so I'm not arguing with you, but to disregard the advantage that LA has in building a team, based on their location would also be stupid.

Exactly… it’s a 50/50 proposition that could have a huge payoff. Teams don’t give unprotected picks that far in the future unless they believe they have something to hang their hat on. Minny did it cuz they believe they will be great for a long time… Miami would do it cuz culture… la does it because beaches and sunshine… none of those things are certain. I have little faith in the current Laker management/ownership.

 

[LogGrad98]

Also, when was the last time the Lakers were good without Lebron? Given their ownership disaster and that he’s gonna likely be exiting in some form or fashion, I’m not sure there’s a better bet on unprotected picks hitting than those picks.

Don't worry, some other star seeking the limelight and legacy of a Lakers team will take his place. It will be a few years of ****, then another star seeking their redemption will partner up with other stars and form another super-team in LA and get another ring or 2. It is just the way the ****ed up NBA goes.

 

[LogGrad98]

September 6th is today.

Tomorrow, my friend. Tomorrow.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Just another idea to toss in here:

-'23 and '26 unprotected
-'23 Mavs (protected) pick
-'25 and '27 super swaps (Knicks receive the worst of all the picks owned by the Jazz)
-'28 protected else swaps in '28 and '29

That last part is the thing I think is interesting if even possible. The idea here is that if the pick falls into the protected range (say it's #7 and it's top-10 protected), then the Jazz have swap rights (meaning they would still get #7 but send their later pick that year) and get the next year's, too. This would mean that the Knicks could not tank out of owing a high pick but it could be sold as a protected pick to save face but it would actually advantage the Jazz.

The headline/summary of the trade is "Knicks acquire star Donovan Mitchell for four 1st round picks". The first layer of details are that they are 'two unprotected 1st round picks (what's being floated as their current offer), two protected first round picks, and swaps."

I'm just trying to think creatively so as to make the parties as comfortable as possible to get this ****er done.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Just another idea to toss in here:

-'23 and '26 unprotected
-'23 Mavs (protected) pick
-'25 and '27 super swaps (Knicks receive the worst of all the picks owned by the Jazz)
-'28 protected else swaps in '28 and '29

That last part is the thing I think is interesting if even possible. The idea here is that if the pick falls into the protected range (say it's #7 and it's top-10 protected), then the Jazz have swap rights (meaning they would still get #7 but send their later pick that year) and get the next year's, too. This would mean that the Knicks could not tank out of owing a high pick but it could be sold as a protected pick to save face but it would actually advantage the Jazz.

The headline/summary of the trade is "Knicks acquire star Donovan Mitchell for four 1st round picks". The first layer of details are that they are 'two unprotected 1st round picks (what's being floated as their current offer), two protected first round picks, and swaps."

I'm just trying to think creatively so as to make the parties as comfortable as possible to get this ****er done.

It’s just not enough unless Barrett was coming back in the deal with these picks. I like where your head is at though.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I could see 23/26/28 being the unprotected picks we get back so the Knicks could use their 24/30 picks in a deal in the future after this year.

We also diversify a little bit since we already have Minnesota’s 27/29. We’d have two 1sts in every draft from 2025 to 2029. That’s ****ing wild.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I could see 23/26/28 being the unprotected picks we get back so the Knicks could use their 24/30 picks in a deal in the future after this year.

We also diversify a little bit since we already have Minnesota’s 27/29. We’d have two 1sts in every draft from 2025 to 2029. That’s ****ing wild.

That's kind of the more simple scenario I was working from and basically functions the same. Just nudges the optics the Knicks way and the practical value the Jazz's way.

 

[Elizah Huge]

That's kind of the more simple scenario I was working from and basically functions the same. Just nudges the optics the Knicks way and the practical value the Jazz's way.

I like yours I feel like we’d need 2 of the other 3 remaining protected picks they have included though.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I like yours I feel like we’d need 2 of the other 3 remaining protected picks they have included though.

That would be great. I just feel like figuring out the particulars of the Knicks picks is the domino that has to fall first and the rest of the stuff (protected picks, which players they are sending) is easier to negotiate.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Barrett
23/26/28 unprotected 1sts
25/27 pick swaps
2 protected 1sts

Close the deal.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I was listening to the KOC/Verno podcast and KOC said something along the lines that Indiana might not want to do a Russ trade because they arent interested in bottoming out.

So a 4-teamer might be possible between NYK/LA/UTA/INDY

Whipped one up real quick.


Who needs more?

 

[Elizah Huge]

I was listening to the KOC/Verno podcast and KOC said something along the lines that Indiana might not want to do a Russ trade because they arent interested in bottoming out.

So a 4-teamer might be possible between NYK/LA/UTA/INDY

Whipped one up real quick.

Who needs more?

I’m not sure Indiana’s reasoning on taking on Randle?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I’m not sure Indiana’s reasoning on taking on Randle?

Yeah, me neither, but KOC mentioned it.

Basically they are just buying low on Randle by shipping out the often injured Myles Turner and they get a flyer on Reddish/Reeves with a 1st rounder from Dallas this year.

The Jazz could also include more pieces to Indiana if they needed more. Someone like Vanderbilt could interest them.

 

[Jingled]

Even if one or more of the players we got in the Minnesota trade are involved in this trade and it can't become official until September 6th, couldn't they still agree to it and announce it before then? It seems like other trades have been announced well in advance of actually becoming official.