Jazz Getting a New GM?

[mellow]

Very interesting how much Lindsey has talked about defense is essential to a player getting playing time, and how he would discuss with Corbin who plays and doesn't play.

My interpretation:

The Jazz will not renew Corbin's contract after this year, Favors will get a LOT more playing time, Favors and Millsap will start (to get Al to wake up defensively, then when Al puts forth effort, Millsap will be traded), and after this year, an assistant coach from SA will be our new HC.

I can't say I would hate it if those things happened.

Enter Jeff Van Gundy to lead us to the promised land.

I wonder if Al Jefferson got sadly drunk when he saw the FO commit to new school basketball analytics?

Big Al's agent probably got sadly drunk, because he knows that Big Al's next payday just got alot smaller. I doubt Jefferson understands analytics much, or how it impacts him, but I'd guess that he was still sadly drunk on the day those comments were made.

 

[Chargers Jazz Angels]

JVG baby. I like Ty but I want JVG.

 

[GVC]

How many titles has a "moneyball" approach brought to cities? I think the success in Oakland was largely due to having high draft picks and prioritizing pitchers. SF did the same without a "moneyball" approach and won a title. In the NBA, the moneyball approach is to throw as much $ as possible at the best FA's, make a key trade with the league's assistance, or tank in the right year to get a franchise big.

You have no clue.

The whole idea is to better measure a player's contribution to wins and, by extension, championships. The NBA boxscore is retardedly outdated, and using all (or at least more) of the now virtually limitless data available to better gauge how much value players are adding (or could potentially add) to the team is a no-brainer. That is, if you want your team to get better and/or have a better shot at a championship. The A's and Rays are perfect examples of small budget teams that have been able to stay competitive by taking advantage of market inefficiencies created by old fashioned thinking.

Or we could all just champion ignorance...

 

[Stifle Tower]

You have no clue.

The A's and Rays are perfect examples of small budget teams that have been able to stay competitive by taking advantage of market inefficiencies created by old fashioned thinking.

Or we could all just champion ignorance...

Yes, the A's rode a trio of pitchers to very good records from 2000-06. Since then, they've reached .500 only once (this year, they're eight games over .500 right now and may get a wild card). AS for the Rays, yes, they're in the midst of a decent run. But they've had years of high picks. Is it their approach or just the fact that their young players are now maturing. BTW, it was after a massive dump of veterans in 2006 that they obtained a lot of young prospects.

I'm not arguing advanced statistics aren't helpful. But they're also overvalued.

I don't need advanced analytics to tell me Hayward and Burks should play over CJ, Raja and Howard. I didn't need advanced analytics to tell me a team featuring Brewer and AK at the wings would never win a championship. I saw with my own eyes that neither could shoot from the outside and teams were just sagging off of both.

 

[GVC]

I'm not arguing advanced statistics aren't helpful. But they're also overvalued

Overvalued how and by whom? More information > Less information. Without knowing the proprietary statistics NBA teams collect and use, or the cost of doing so, how can you possibly say that these statistics are overvalued? Is willful ignorance just your thing?

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Overvalued how and by whom? More information > Less information. Without knowing the proprietary statistics NBA teams collect and use, or the cost of doing so, how can you possibly say that these statistics are overvalued? Is willful ignorance just your thing?

I think he means something along the line of how Raja Bell had the best TS% on our team last year.

 

[green]

Yes, the A's rode a trio of pitchers to very good records from 2000-06. Since then, they've reached .500 only once (this year, they're eight games over .500 right now and may get a wild card). AS for the Rays, yes, they're in the midst of a decent run. But they've had years of high picks. Is it their approach or just the fact that their young players are now maturing. BTW, it was after a massive dump of veterans in 2006 that they obtained a lot of young prospects.

I'm not arguing advanced statistics aren't helpful. But they're also overvalued.

I don't need advanced analytics to tell me Hayward and Burks should play over CJ, Raja and Howard. I didn't need advanced analytics to tell me a team featuring Brewer and AK at the wings would never win a championship. I saw with my own eyes that neither could shoot from the outside and teams were just sagging off of both.

As these statistics relate to the Jazz, how much do you think this will help Lindsey convince other Jazz authorities that because Jefferson has a line of 19 and 10 with 50% shooting, that doesn't necessarily mean he helps the team.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Jefferson's analytics are actually pretty good when you look at them.

Pretty much equals Millsap. Better in some areas, worse in others, and that's including some defense stats. He's also quite efficient in the post given usage and PPP.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

And unless the Jazz completely fall off the wagon, Corbin will be the coach for the 13-14 season.

 

[mellow]

Jefferson's analytics are actually pretty good when you look at them.

Pretty much equals Millsap. Better in some areas, worse in others, and that's including some defense stats. He's also quite efficient in the post given usage and PPP.

Darkwing, that graph is mesmorizing. Can you get it to spin? Really somebody should be able to spin it.

 

[mellow]

As these statistics relate to the Jazz, how much do you think this will help Lindsey convince other Jazz authorities that because Jefferson has a line of 19 and 10 with 50% shooting, that doesn't necessarily mean he helps the team.

Still waiting to hear Lindsey's evaluation of the Miller Metric, and the value of charting deflections per minute played.

 

[GVC]

Jefferson's analytics are actually pretty good when you look at them...

Even the stats you've listed barely scratch the surface of what's now available to NBA teams.

Consider, there are 5 players on the court for each team at any one time. Thus, on average, each player is responsible for 1/5 of his team's (terminal) possessions. What is that player doing when he's not either shooting or turning the ball over? What is he doing when he's not grabbing a rebound, blocking a shot or stealing the ball? A lot more of these things are being measured now, with corresponding (proprietary) counterfactual analysis. Unfortunately, this data and analysis is usually either very expensive or completely unavailable to the general public. It's way easier to be a nerdy stat-head baseball fan.

 

[YB85]

Even the stats you've listed barely scratch the surface of what's now available to NBA teams.

Consider, there are 5 players on the court for each team at any one time. Thus, on average, each player is responsible for 1/5 of his team's (terminal) possessions. What is that player doing when he's not either shooting or turning the ball over? What is he doing when he's not grabbing a rebound, blocking a shot or stealing the ball? A lot more of these things are being measured now, with corresponding (proprietary) counterfactual analysis. Unfortunately, this data and analysis is usually either very expensive or completely unavailable to the general public. It's way easier to be a nerdy stat-head baseball fan.

To answer these questions: Big Al is sucking the enjoyment out of my basketball experience. That's what he's doing.

 

[green]

So, I keep saying that this is Corbin's last year on his deal. It was mentioned in this article:

https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/54641796-87/connor-jazz-utah-lindsey.html.csp

It said:

"He’s trusted by Utah coach Tyrone Corbin, who has one year before the Jazz must decide if they will pick up his option for 2013-2014, highly valued by Jazz CEO Greg Miller and Rigby, and respected by everyone from premier NBA agents to journeymen veteran players."

They have taken the part out about his deal. I don't know if it is false or what, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[The Midnight]

Very interesting how much Lindsey has talked about defense is essential to a player getting playing time, and how he would discuss with Corbin who plays and doesn't play.

My interpretation:

The Jazz will not renew Corbin's contract after this year, Favors will get a LOT more playing time, Favors and Millsap will start (to get Al to wake up defensively, then when Al puts forth effort, Millsap will be traded), and after this year, an assistant coach from SA will be our new HC.

I can't say I would hate it if those things happened.

No more excuses for Corbin IMO.

He has a full training camp. He has an improved roster with all those shooters. He has 1.5 years under his belt now.

I think the pressure's on and he knows it.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

No more excuses for Corbin IMO.

He has a full training camp. He has an improved roster with all those shooters. He has 1.5 years under his belt now.

I think the pressure's on and he knows it.

He made the playoffs last year when the Jazz were predicted to be near the bottom of the conference.

 

[Stifle Tower]

He made the playoffs last year when the Jazz were predicted to be near the bottom of the conference.

Not sure what else people want. Look at the contribution the Jazz got from their wings. Hayward came on the last half of the season, but went cold again in the playoffs. Burks had a few good moments, but CJ, Raja and Howard were pretty much non-factors: 36-30 was overachieving.

 

[mrob]

No more excuses for Corbin IMO.

He has a full training camp. He has an improved roster with all those shooters. He has 1.5 years under his belt now.

I think the pressure's on and he knows it.

Who's making excuses? Corbin managed the team the last season and a half as well as anyone could have expected ... and made the playoffs.

Sure, the pressure is on to take the next step, but this is the NBA, the pressure is always on coaches. There are only a handful of coaches in the league where this is not the case, and one of them retired from Utah two seasons ago.

 

[mellow]

What you said:

Who's making excuses? Corbin managed the team the last season and a half as well as anyone could have expected ... and made the playoffs.

What I read:

Corbin managed the team the last season and half as well as anyone could have expected.

 

[green]

Who's making excuses? Corbin managed the team the last season and a half as well as anyone could have expected ... and made the playoffs.

Sure, the pressure is on to take the next step, but this is the NBA, the pressure is always on coaches. There are only a handful of coaches in the league where this is not the case, and one of them retired from Utah two seasons ago.

Gunther and Graham were talking about the Utes upcoming football season and said this:

"If you knew Utah would beat USC and BYU, but go 8-4, would you say that was a successful season? Today, yes. BUT, if you started off 6-0 having beat BYU and USC then went on to finish 8-4, you would feel the season was a waste and a letdown."

Same with Utah. Going into the season, the 8th seed would have been considered a success. BUT, after seeing the talent this team has, the 8th seed feels like a letdown, especially when you were only 2 games out of the 6th seed, with at least three really, really bad losses.

To say he managed the team as well as anyone....that is being very generous.