Jazz Offseason Plan

[Handlogten's Heros]

Of course if you mess up the follow up moves and the pick sucks then Donovan sits there and says "we traded Bojan for this rookie huh?"

 

[LoPo]

If you put it all into one deal... so Bojan to NY, Knox to OKC, Utah gets 19, 32, and Williams from OKC... then the trade exception gets bigger and could be pretty useful. I hope if we pinch pennis on Bogey we don't give up value to drop Favs too. You'd have an 18.7M trade exception to play around with. You can wait until people see they need a center after FA and make maybe a better move to drop Favs... then you could hunt at the trade deadline with a big trade exception to make any kind of deal work. Most likely it goes unused but you have the ability to make a medium sized deal if something good comes up.

A lot of folks wouldn't want to hear it here... but you could also match a reasonable offer on Niang (under 5M) if you wanted to.

I agree. The Bojan deal, which makes so much sense for NY really, could open the door for a lot of ideas.

Bojan to NY
Knoz to OKC or Cleveland
Picks to Utah

The Knicks are notorious in the past for making bad big money deals. But I do think they are changing their ways. Bojan provides them with much needed shooting and his deal is fair. He fits next to Randle.

 

[NAOS]

There’s a threshold to keep an eye on: what percentage and what volume would a Bogie replacement need to shoot without the offensive system breaking down?

35% on 4 attempts.... is that safe? With Rudy, this **** really matters.

where’s the line?

I’m fine with trading Bogie (even though I slightly prefer a JC trade), but the replacement better defend his *** off, since I think the odds of him being the pickle on offense are super high.

 

[NAOS]

There’s a threshold to keep an eye on: what percentage and what volume would a Bogie replacement need to shoot without the offensive system breaking down?

35% on 4 attempts.... is that safe?

where’s the line?

I’m fine with trading Bogie (even though I slightly prefer a JC trade), but the replacement better defend his *** off, since I think the odds of him being the pickle on offense are super high.

I’d also hope that if we trade Bogie for defensive flexibility, then we finish the job and trade Favors for the same reason. A 4/5 combo is just as important, imo.

 

[KqWIN]

Of course if you mess up the follow up moves and the pick sucks then Donovan sits there and says "we traded Bojan for this rookie huh?"

I think the NY deal makes a lot of sense for both parties... they have more space than they can use responsibly. Bojan fits a big need for them. Helps them be more more appealing (maybe slightly) for vet free agents.

It also clears more salary for next year and opens up a lot of maneuvers. If they nailed the follow up moves we could replace his production and add some flexibility and young talent that we desperately need.

If you cut the salary from Bogey, I also think it opens up trade options with Favors. Maybe you move one of your picks with Favors to get Nance or Thad. I think that would be a great piece of business.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There’s a threshold to keep an eye on: what percentage and what volume would a Bogie replacement need to shoot without the offensive system breaking down?

35% on 4 attempts.... is that safe? With Rudy, this **** really matters.

where’s the line?

I’m fine with trading Bogie (even though I slightly prefer a JC trade), but the replacement better defend his *** off, since I think the odds of him being the pickle on offense are super high.

I think the general idea with trading Bogie is that the most valuable thing he does is shoot the ball. His creation/post up stuff is fine if we don't have one of Don/Mike/JC but is superfluous if we are 100% healthy. So can you find someone that gives you the shooting but is a better ball mover or a better defender/rebounder? Are you now just as good but maybe more flexible, cheaper, and did you get some young talent along the way?

If you told me we could sign Batum and snake Williams away from OKC then I'm 100% for trading Bogey.

That said... JC's on/off stuff in the playoffs is really troubling. It can partly be explained by asking to do too much and not in his normal role in the playoffs... but worth watching.

 

[LoPo]

I think the general idea with trading Bogie is that the most valuable thing he does is shoot the ball. His creation/post up stuff is fine if we don't have one of Don/Mike/JC but is superfluous if we are 100% healthy. So can you find someone that gives you the shooting but is a better ball mover or a better defender/rebounder? Are you now just as good but maybe more flexible, cheaper, and did you get some young talent along the way?

If you told me we could sign Batum and snake Williams away from OKC then I'm 100% for trading Bogey.

That said... JC's on/off stuff in the playoffs is really troubling. It can partly be explained by asking to do too much and not in his normal role in the playoffs... but worth watching.

What did we look like the last two years with the following starting lineup:
Conley
Don
Jingles
Royce
Rudy

Is that a lineup with good production and potential? If we added a few more low level contract perimeter defenders and a PG to go with JC and Doke on the bench, are we in a good place? I mean Batum is perfect, but very unlikely.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If you cut the salary from Bogey, I also think it opens up trade options with Favors. Maybe you move one of your picks with Favors to get Nance or Thad. I think that would be a great piece of business.

Agree... you can then make a basketball trade with him and not purely a cost cutting move... opens up more of the trade board. Favs and #30 for Delon Wright and a second is another deal I'd add to Nance, Thad, etc.

 

[oneye]

“He loves their medical staff.”

Clearly DL is still Woj’s source here.

Or maybe it’s just one crybaby who has an issue with an overly cautious medical staff.

 

[NAOS]

I’m interested in Thad, for sure.

 

[oneye]

This may be why Ingles is being talked about as the one most likely to move. He is the one contenders want the most and this may be our last chance to get any sort of significant asset out of him. If we need to make another move, Bojan can be moved next deadline/offseason, as can Fav. Ingles could be moved at the deadline as an expiring, but he's likely to fetch a better return right now.

To me, to maximize our chances at title contention we need to do something a little bit different with minutes on the perimeter. Trading Ingles for an asset and picking up a usable player via FA is not going to materially affect our title chances. Honestly, as long as we have the Don, Mike, Rudy core surrounded by some semblance of a roster that makes sense around them, we will be a contending team.

And it's never as simple as "win-now." I am sure Ryan is trying to keep us in contention, while also preparing for the future (i.e., any potential major roster pivots we may need to make around Don to keep him around), while also looking at his own financial situation and the team's financial situation. It's a lot to balance. The dude just invested a lot of money into the Jazz. Do you really think he wants to turn around and cut another check for $40-$60 million right now when he can avoid that while also putting his own stamp on the team? I doubt it.

I too want Ingles around next year, but I'm not going to pretend that moving Ingles is going to materially affect our chances at a title next year so long as the player getting minutes in his place can do something better than Ingles (i.e. defending) even if overall it's a downgrade. It's still going to take health, some lucky bounces and the right matchups to win a title.

I guess what I'm saying is moving one member of the rotation to avoid tax and maybe pick-up a draft asset along the way is an okay way to balance winning now with a little bit of future planning. We'll still be a contender next year if one member of the rotation gets swapped out.

Joe has not been worth a whole hell of a lot in the playoffs anyway the past few years.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

What did we look like the last two years with the following starting lineup:
Conley
Don
Jingles
Royce
Rudy

Is that a lineup with good production and potential? If we added a few more low level contract perimeter defenders and a PG to go with JC and Doke on the bench, are we in a good place? I mean Batum is perfect, but very unlikely.

If you have a starting spot available I think Batum is going to be intrigued. I don't think he gets full MLE from a team that is going to compete for a title. LA may not offer him their taxpayer MLE... they probably will but they may have a better option out there.

I think you are still bringing Joe off the bench and adding some athleticism/rebounding to that lineup. How would Rudy Gay look? Ariza/Harkless/DJJ/Aminu/Craig... maybe you go Bjelica on the cheap or Juan Hernangomez is likely looking for a new team... Could also go with more of a SF like Bazemore or Abdel Nader.

There are a lot of ways to try and get at it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Joe has not been worth a whole hell of a lot in the playoffs anyway the past few years.

Ummm he was good this year... go check the numbers.

 

[oneye]

Idk, Dennis put them in a tough spot. I get why you want to avoid a giant tax bill, and $60 million is significant for any team, let alone the Utah Jazz, but if you can’t miss the tax altogether, you’re going to be in repeater tax next season anyway. If we trade someone, I would trade Joe. If you can get enough for Bogey sure. Obviously Niang is gonna be let go. Yes I’m sure they want Forrest back, he’s a cheap roster spot Donovan likes. Hughes will be back. Thursday will be very interesting.

 

[oneye]

Ummm he was good this year... go check the numbers.

He was good this year yes, he was not some huge difference maker in the playoffs as one of the main guys. I think he wore down a lot by the Clippers series, but no, he’s not someone who makes or breaks whether you beat the Clippers in a series he’s just not.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m interested in Thad, for sure.

I am too, but only if Quin will use him as a small ball 5 at times. That is where he becomes a differentiator imo... using him as a roll man opened up his passing and a bunch of stuff. I doubt Chicago lets him go.

 

[idiot]

Assuming this means Trent is likely coming back?

Not sure why you'd assume this (unless there's more context behind it than is clear). It's possible that it's what it means, I suppose, but that's a pretty all-purpose phrase/tweet. Not even sure why the Jazz would have made a decision on him at this point.

(But I like Forrest.)

 

[NAOS]

I am too, but only if Quin will use him as a small ball 5 at times. That is where he becomes a differentiator imo... using him as a roll man opened up his passing and a bunch of stuff. I doubt Chicago lets him go.

For sure.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He was good this year yes, he was not some huge difference maker in the playoffs as one of the main guys. I think he wore down a lot by the Clippers series, but no, he’s not someone who makes or breaks whether you beat the Clippers in a series he’s just not.

I mean there are like 3 guys on the roster that are that level of player.

 

[Ujfanatic]

I wonder if these rumors suggest the Jazz are looking to make a move to facilitate the next move. Realistically, the Jazz need another real impact player. Other than lucking out in the draft/free agency, the most likely way to do that is through a trade with a rebuilding/retooling team that is willing to trade an impact player. Those teams want young players/draft picks back for their impact player, assets the Jazz do not have.

The assets the Jazz do have are veteran, 'win now' players. Those players are appealing to playoff/title contending teams, who may be willing to give up younger players/future assets for them. If the Jazz can accumulate a few more assets that would appeal to a rebuilding/retooling team, they would be much better positioned to then take a swing for an impact player.

This may mean the Jazz tread water for a season. Maybe the roster does take a step backwards for a year, but it allows Donovan to have his breakout, compete for the scoring title and MVP discussion type of season. The team wouldn't be as good but it would allow Donovan his full ascension to superstar status and then the Jazz are better positioned to add an impact player next off season. Maybe the focus here is really on 2022-23.