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Jazz select Grayson Allen at 21

Catchall said:
Listening to Locke, he makes it sound like the Jazz were zeroed in on JRob, DD, Huerter, and Allen. All of them had at least 2 years of college and all were proven shooters. He said he didn't think Anfernee Simons was on our timeline -- too young and too undeveloped. With Mitchell being 22 (and playing beyond his years) and Gobert now 26(?), I think the Jazz are looking for players in that age range to help them make a run.

Locke is also suggesting that Okobo dropping to 31 shows he's a drop in talent level.
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I had the same thought about Okobo. If he was that good he shouldn’t have dropped to the second round. Does that mean he won’t be a great player? Definitely not, but it means something.
 
Catchall said:
Listening to Locke, he makes it sound like the Jazz were zeroed in on JRob, DD, Huerter, and Allen. All of them had at least 2 years of college and all were proven shooters. He said he didn't think Anfernee Simons was on our timeline -- too young and too undeveloped. With Mitchell being 22 (and playing beyond his years) and Gobert now 26(?), I think the Jazz are looking for players in that age range to help them make a run.

Locke is also suggesting that Okobo dropping to 31 shows he's a drop in talent level.
Click to expand...
This is another reminder to not try to gauge what the FO is thinking based on what Walt Perrin is saying... he pretty much pulled a smokescreen in front of all of our eyes when he said we are looking more for a long-term project who would help in 1-2 years rather than right away. BTW good on him for that. If you want to know what the FO is thinking - go to Locke, he will tell you everything you need to know.
 
Grayson's Hands said:
I had the same thought about Okobo. If he was that good he shouldn’t have dropped to the second round. Does that mean he won’t be a great player? Definitely not, but it means something.
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Actually, evaluators are wrong quite often so I think this is a bad take. Also, the tier was pretty flat and I think he could've just as easily gone before the Jazz pick as where he ended up.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Actually, evaluators are wrong quite often so I think this is a bad take. Also, the tier was pretty flat and I think he could've just as easily gone before the Jazz pick as where he ended up.
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Well, the only thing that matters is DL thought Allen was the better prospect than Okobo.
 
Grayson's Hands said:
I had the same thought about Okobo. If he was that good he shouldn’t have dropped to the second round. Does that mean he won’t be a great player? Definitely not, but it means something.
Click to expand...

Indiana locked onto Holiday early, porty chose between him an Simons, Sixers need more off ball value and are also down a GM, Celtics had to take Williams, GS needs wing depth and a more ready made player, BKN has a ton of combo guards, and Atlanta already took two guards...

I think it means that the NBA values NCAA more than Euro guys still. If Okobo played in the NCAA he would have dominated... his numbers were great playing against grown men. I don't feel like it really means something... sometimes teams reach for a guy and sometimes teams miss on a guy.

I mean DM went 8 picks after Fox so that means something... right?

Not arguing one player is better than another... arguing that a guy going after a guy means there is a drop in talent.
 
stitches said:
This is another reminder to not try to gauge what the FO is thinking based on what Walt Perrin is saying... he pretty much pulled a smokescreen in front of all of our eyes when he said we are looking more for a long-term project who would help in 1-2 years rather than right away. BTW good on him for that. If you want to know what the FO is thinking - go to Locke, he will tell you everything you need to know.
Click to expand...

At some point he's going to get talked too... someone is telling him too much... has been spot on for like 6 or so years now.
 
stitches said:
This is another reminder to not try to gauge what the FO is thinking based on what Walt Perrin is saying... he pretty much pulled a smokescreen in front of all of our eyes when he said we are looking more for a long-term project who would help in 1-2 years rather than right away. BTW good on him for that. If you want to know what the FO is thinking - go to Locke, he will tell you everything you need to know.
Click to expand...

I thought the Grayson Allen-to-the-Jazz hype, which was all over the league btw, was our smokescreen. I thought we were going to make a play for Troy Brown (and see if we could make him our version of Jimmy Butler) or JRob (and see if we could make him our version of Jamal Murray). I think the Jazz would have put up some assets to get Miles Bridges, but he went too early when Lonnie Walker and MPJ dropped instead due to medical issues. Locke makes it sound like trade-up opportunities weren't really there. Once MPJ dropped to Denver, the Nuggets were keeping their pick.

Grayson Allen will fit in nicely with the Jazz's second unit. Again, I think he's our version of JJ Barea or Matthew Dellevadova who comes in and mucks things up off the bench while not taking touches away from our primary scorers. He'll play 3/D and handle the ball to take pressure off of Mitchell.

I think the Jazz like their core of Rubio / Mitchell / Ingles / ?? / Gobert. I think they like Exum / Allen / O'Neale / Crowder off the bench. They're going to try to make a play for a 2nd-tier free agent like Rudy Gay, or maybe Tobias Harris next year. Maybe they can pull off a sign-and-trade with Favors for Otto Porter or something.

I think the Jazz's goal is to be a top 3 or 4 team in the Western Conference, get their win total up to 55 wins and take their chances in the playoffs.
 
The sad thing is... I think Okobo is just as ready for the minutes Allen likely gets this year. He's been playing pro ball for a couple years now. Better shooter and creator and finisher. I think he might currently be worse on defense and he likely does not play as hard as Allen. His hand pads are likely subpar.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Indiana locked onto Holiday early, porty chose between him an Simons, Sixers need more off ball value and are also down a GM, Celtics had to take Williams, GS needs wing depth and a more ready made player, BKN has a ton of combo guards, and Atlanta already took two guards...

I think it means that the NBA values NCAA more than Euro guys still. If Okobo played in the NCAA he would have dominated... his numbers were great playing against grown men. I don't feel like it really means something... sometimes teams reach for a guy and sometimes teams miss on a guy.

I mean DM went 8 picks after Fox so that means something... right?

Not arguing one player is better than another... arguing that a guy going after a guy means there is a drop in talent.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with everything you said except don’t use Mitchell as the example. He’s the exception.
 
Catchall said:
I thought the Grayson Allen-to-the-Jazz hype, which was all over the league btw, was our smokescreen. I thought we were going to make a play for Troy Brown (and see if we could make him our version of Jimmy Butler) or JRob (and see if we could make him our version of Jamal Murray). I think the Jazz would have put up some assets to get Miles Bridges, but he went too early when Lonnie Walker and MPJ dropped instead due to medical issues. Locke makes it sound like trade-up opportunities weren't really there. Once MPJ dropped to Denver, the Nuggets were keeping their pick.

Grayson Allen will fit in nicely with the Jazz's second unit. Again, I think he's our version of JJ Barea or Matthew Dellevadova who comes in and mucks things up off the bench while not taking touches away from our primary scorers. He'll play 3/D and handle the ball to take pressure off of Mitchell.

I think the Jazz like their core of Rubio / Mitchell / Ingles / ?? / Gobert. I think they like Exum / Allen / O'Neale / Crowder off the bench. They're going to try to make a play for a 2nd-tier free agent like Rudy Gay, or maybe Tobias Harris next year. Maybe they can pull off a sign-and-trade with Favors for Otto Porter or something.

I think the Jazz's goal is to be a top 3 or 4 team in the Western Conference, get their win total up to 55 wins and take their chances in the playoffs.
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To split hairs:

"mucking up" is not the same as playing quality defense, which Allen has never shown an aptitude for.
 
I will support Allen, but I'm building houses and strip malls on Okobo Island. I don't have all the real estate called for, but if you want to purchase land it is going fast.
 
Grayson's Hands said:
I totally agree with everything you said except don’t use Mitchell as the example. He’s the exception.
Click to expand...
Look at draft histories, and tell me that after the first 10 picks, that **** isn't all over the place. Where a guy gets selected isn't strong evidence to me of any objective measurement. There are so, so many variables. That's the rule.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The sad thing is... I think Okobo is just as ready for the minutes Allen likely gets this year. He's been playing pro ball for a couple years now. Better shooter and creator and finisher. I think he might currently be worse on defense and he likely does not play as hard as Allen. His hand pads are likely subpar.
Click to expand...

Okobo is primarily a PG who plays on the ball. If the Jazz don't think he'll impact the end of games due to position, I can see them passing on him. I think he's likely to become the Suns' starting PG within a year though.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Indiana locked onto Holiday early, porty chose between him an Simons, Sixers need more off ball value and are also down a GM, Celtics had to take Williams, GS needs wing depth and a more ready made player, BKN has a ton of combo guards, and Atlanta already took two guards...

I think it means that the NBA values NCAA more than Euro guys still. If Okobo played in the NCAA he would have dominated... his numbers were great playing against grown men. I don't feel like it really means something... sometimes teams reach for a guy and sometimes teams miss on a guy.

I mean DM went 8 picks after Fox so that means something... right?

Not arguing one player is better than another... arguing that a guy going after a guy means there is a drop in talent.
Click to expand...

I remember reading that Okobo played in a rather weak league


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
NUMBERICA said:
Look at draft histories, and tell me that after the first 10 picks, that **** isn't all over the place. Where a guy gets selected isn't strong evidence to me of any objective measurement. There are so, so many variables. That's the rule.
Click to expand...

It’s more of people being upset that we didn’t take someone at 21 who fell to the second round. You don’t think DL knew everything that HH brought up? He could have easily moved down to 29-30 and grabbed Okobo plus an extra asset.
 


This kinda sums up my thoughts... there aren't safe bets and picks that late.
 
Catchall said:
I thought the Grayson Allen-to-the-Jazz hype, which was all over the league btw, was our smokescreen. I thought we were going to make a play for Troy Brown (and see if we could make him our version of Jimmy Butler) or JRob (and see if we could make him our version of Jamal Murray).
Click to expand...
I don't know why you thought that? Locke doesn't do smokescreens! This is like... 7 years in a row he's spoiling what we are going to do without a miss!
 
What this draft says to me is that the Jazz like their core team. They're more interested in making tweaks than big changes.

Rudy is our top 5 C.
Mitchell is our top 5 - 10 SG
Rubio is our top 10 PG.
Ingles is our top 10 SF.

The Jazz have a 3-year window with this group before Rudy hits free agency.
 
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