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Jazz select Isaiah Collier at pick 29

NAOS_pt2 said:
I'm happy to fact check you.
Bottom line: you're wrong.

The jazz needed a guy who could generate offense and take tough shots. Mitchell was up for it, and did a great job, considering the circumstances. The team won, though, because of Rudy.


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Ummm what exactly are you fact checking me on exactly? All I was pointing out is that he was a good not bad shooter in hopes that maybe the scouts could be wrong about how good or bad a shooter Collier is. How did Rudy get into this convo?
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Holy crap, I only brought this up to feed my hope that Collier is better shooter than we think. I don’t need numbers to no that Mitchell never was a poor shooter in the league.
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wut?

Btw, when I started engaging you on this issue, I obviously already knew you were the kind of person that was allergic to providing evidence for their claims. Keep truckin', gramps.
 
One thing I’m confused about. At the time Collier was rated the #1 recruit there were plenty of others in the top ten in the first mocks coming out of guys who also couldn’t shoot and showed to be much worse than Collier some only slipped a tiny bit but Collier hours from a top prospect to damn near the second round. That makes me think there’s some other huge on court or life wart I don’t know about, and don’t say turnovers. I don’t consider that a logical reason to slip that far.

So why such a much larger slip than most others?
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
One thing I’m confused about. At the time Collier was rated the #1 recruit there were plenty of others in the top ten in the first mocks coming out of guys who also couldn’t shoot and showed to be much worse than Collier some only slipped a tiny bit but Collier hours from a top prospect to damn near the second round. That makes me think there’s some other huge on court or life wart I don’t know about, and don’t say turnovers. I don’t consider that a logical reason to slip that far.

So why such a much larger slip than most others?
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He’s short and nobody wants short players, especially if they have weak shooting indicators (67% on free throws is more than a little concerning). We saw a few notable jumps from the 2nd round to the first, and what did they have in common? They’re stout wings.

And sometimes weird **** just happens on top of that. Don’t ask me to explain the AJ Johnson pick. That is all on Milwaukee.
 
NUMBERICA said:
He’s short and nobody wants short players, especially if they have weak shooting indicators (67% on free throws is more than a little concerning). We saw a few notable jumps from the 2nd round to the first, and what did they have in common? They’re stout wings.

And sometimes weird **** just happens on top of that. Don’t ask me to explain the AJ Johnson pick. That is all on Milwaukee.
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It’s not high. The average height for starting pg in the NBA is 6’2.5 which is exactly the same as Collier. So I don’t buy that explanation
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
It’s not high. The average height for starting pg in the NBA is 6’2.5 which is exactly the same as Collier. So I don’t buy that explanation
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There are only a handful of teams needing a point guard, and it just so happens that Collier fell in the point guard rankings enough (due to a combo of suspect shooting and TO), for him to slip a long way.

We got pretty lucky this year so many things fell our way (including the rise of Edey and Salaun).
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
One thing I’m confused about. At the time Collier was rated the #1 recruit there were plenty of others in the top ten in the first mocks coming out of guys who also couldn’t shoot and showed to be much worse than Collier some only slipped a tiny bit but Collier hours from a top prospect to damn near the second round. That makes me think there’s some other huge on court or life wart I don’t know about, and don’t say turnovers. I don’t consider that a logical reason to slip that far.

So why such a much larger slip than most others?
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It’s possible there was some injury/interview red flags. We may never know.

There was also a big priority on Wings. Once you get down to the contending teams, there’s naturally going to be a preference on wings/guys who can contribute early. There aren’t going to be as many teams later in the first round looking for project PGs. So he could have just gotten unlucky.

Can’t explain wtf MIL was thinking though.
 
Pinhead said:
He was listed as like 6’5” until the combine measured him at 2-3” shorter… I’m sure that didn’t help his stock any.
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With shoes gets him to 6’ 4”. He’s actually not that short, but he’s not tall, and he doesn’t have a great wingspan.

My read is teams overthought all of this in the context of team-building and current (understandable) trends of desirable player types. Short guys that need a lot of work on their jumper and aren’t great defenders is certainly not en vogue.

But sure, maybe there were also personality/intangibles issues too. Still a great dice roll at 29.
 
Throughout the process I wondered about Collier vs Topic. Obviously they are not exactly the same, but in both cases you’re kinda betting on the drive+kick ability and worrying about the defense+shooting.

I wasn’t one who abandoned Topic as a prospect….but Collier is a much better value at 28 than Topic at 12 imo.
 
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