We only need enough to sign James Harden.
Jazz trade Devin Harris to Atlanta for Marvin Williams (merged)
- Thread starter Favors Flave
- Start date
We only need enough to sign James Harden.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Excellent point. We got Memo because we could afford to pay more than Detroit. And the same with Boozer. Neither were huge names at the time. Well, I guess Carlos had showed decent potential. With the luxury tax severely punishing teams that overspend, Jazz will be positioned to swoop in and make a bid on a FA, or perhaps take a veteran off someone's hands to keep them from paying the tax penalty.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Sorry Catch, I think you're one of the better posters here, but Hawks fans aren't happy to be getting Harris. They are rejoicing that they were able to dump Marvin's contract. We can agree that the run the Jazz made was great, but it's going to take a hell of a lot more than Marvin Williams to convince me we wouldn't be considerably better off had we lost a couple of key games. For now, I'm just tickled to know that Utah is taking a gamble and shaking things up.
Completely different situations. The Nets gave up nothing to take a gamble on Memo. Not the same as Hawks fans being glad to dump Marvin.
Also, when Utah traded for Al, I believe it was only Kenwood and myself who were about the only Jazz fans that were skeptical that it might not be all it was cracked up to be. Kenwood started a thread on it, and got absolutely hammered.
I say we offer him all $32 mil, front loaded.......
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
You always need as much as you can get. And you never pay a guy more than he's worth if you can control it. Williams has no chance to be worth 7.5 mil in year 2. He'll be lucky to get the MLE. And we could get a better player for that same amount of money. So we're definitely taking a hit losing that money. Not a Joe Johnson hit, just a hit.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
No it is not.
The new tax penalties kick in next year, and there will be quite a few teams who will be looking to dump players. KOC will likely use that cap space to take on a player/s without sending back equal salary. I have 0% doubt that we will easily acquire a better player than Marvin. Maybe two.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Exactly. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, excessive cap space is precisely what landed Rondo in Boston, Ibaka in OKC, and Hayward here in Utah. For as much as people on this board drool over draft picks, I don't think they realize the value extra cap space has played in landing late 1st-rnd picks or future draft picks that can turn out to be gems down the road (such as after Utah extends some of their young players and could use an extra draft pick to further improve their roster).
Not to mention - $32 million seems like alot until you consider you only have 4 players under contract. By the time you fill in some of the blanks with your own guys like a Paul Millsap and possibly a Mo Williams, and account for simply getting up to the 13-player minimum that number really dwindles.
Numberica was all over it as well. I immediately said Al wasn't an upgrade over Boozer but I didn't think he'd struggle to the extent he did in our system with a point guard like Deron Williams getting (or trying to) him the ball, so I give you three alot of credit.
Sometimes when you're really anxious for a change, it's easy to focus on the positives and overlook or not care about the negatives. Marvin definitely fits a need and IMO makes Utah a better team in 2012-13, but his aquisition also definititely has a downside.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
It's not just that. We've also seen teams have picked off RFA's this offseason. Asik is gone, Lin can be had, and Indy is flinching on Hibbert. Can't do that without big cap space.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
And to attract FA's, Utah has to overpay. No one says to their agent, "hey, I love that snow in the wintertime and the exciting night life Salt Lake has to offer. I'll take a pay cut to play for the Jazz." Well, at least not until Jimmer becomes a FA ;-)
$7.5M for a guy who's playing an effective 25-30 mins is nothing. He'll either be playing great because it's a contract year, or he'll opt out because he had a great year in 2012/13. Win for us either way.
Utah baffles me. The Jazz just took on an extra year of Marvin Williams at $7.5 million, and I have no idea why. While Williams isn't a bad player, he's not worth this amount, and he does little to solve Utah's twin needs of perimeter shooting and real backcourt players. While the Jazz have a ton of cap room in 2013-14, Williams eats into it, and that paper cap room is going to disappear in a hurry if Utah tries to retain any of its own free agents -- such as Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap or Mo Williams.
The fact the Jazz just handed Danny Ferry a free pass to potential world domination -- and, ironically, paved the path to the Hawks' getting Paul with a trade of Williams, the man Atlanta took instead of Paul in the 2005 draft -- is another reason to question this deal; at the least, they should be getting a first-round pick for their trouble.
-Hollinger
The fact the Jazz just handed Danny Ferry a free pass to potential world domination -- and, ironically, paved the path to the Hawks' getting Paul with a trade of Williams, the man Atlanta took instead of Paul in the 2005 draft -- is another reason to question this deal; at the least, they should be getting a first-round pick for their trouble.
-Hollinger
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I thought there were a few other skeptics, but I couldn't remember. I will say that even though Al didn't work out, it was a move we absolutely had to make at the time. I kinda look at this the same way. The shakeup we're going through now may or may not improve the team, but it's better than standing pat with a team that just wasn't good enough to make any real noise.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Hollinger baffles me and I DO know the reason why. Seriously, with all the different metrics he uses, shouldn't he have noticed that Williams is actually a pretty good shooter with 3-PT range? And by having Marvin play 25-30 mins at SF, it also frees up Hayward to spend half his time at SG, with Burks playing the remainder of the mins.
We traded an expiring for a guy who likely gives us 2 years. No pick needed as the trade is pretty fair as is.
Oh yeah, and in case you haven't heard, one of our bigs is gone after this season, if not sooner. There simply isn't enough PT to go around. And I guarantee you the odd man out won't be Favors and it won't be Kanter. So no need to worry about cap space. It will be there.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Yes, kudos to vslice, Numberica, etc. for telling us the emperor had no clothes. I'm like you. I thought it was a move that had to be made and a good risk to take, especially since we were trying to do exactly what NJ has done...provide Deron with evidence that the FO is trying to make the team better and convince him to stay.
Fishsticks
Banned
Like Asik? You only get players from other teams if you overpay. Mle gets us nothing.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Yes I did.
OK guys... back to Marvin. Seems he could be a 'solid' defensive presence for us at SF. He doesn't seem very fast or quick, but he is a big body who could do well in a team defence situation...
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Whether he is overpaid or not is academic. That deal, like Wes' deal, like deals for Lin or Hibbert, are possible because one team has the cap space, and another team can't afford the hit.
Fishsticks
Banned
We don't want some dumped vet dude. We are building for our future. Teams don't dump quality players.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what Atlanta just did.