Jazz trade Devin Harris to Atlanta for Marvin Williams (merged)

[Gyp Rosetti]

I'm cautiously optimistic. Of course this is because I'm comparing Marvin to CJ Miles instead of Devin Harris, and I'm optimistic about just about every player when compared to CJ.

Williams: 45% shooter for career, 43.2% last year, 32.9% from the arc career, 38.9% from the arc last year, 1.3 assists in 30.4 minutes per game career
CJ Miles: 41.9% shooting career, 38.1% last year, 32.9% from the arc career, 30.7% from the arc last year, 1.3 assists in 19.3 minutes per game for his career

This isn't to prove anything, just sort of to look at their stats. Williams is obviously a better rebounder and probably an equal defender at worst. His shooting numbers are better as well. However, his assists numbers are a big concern to me. He makes Big Al look like Stockton here. And while I know Atlanta ran a ton of iso stuff, it's still very disconcerting and I can't help but think a player isn't going to just flip the switch on all of a sudden into a seven year career.

 

[The Midnight]

Williams: 45% shooter for career, 43.2% last year, 32.9% from the arc career, 38.9% from the arc last year, 1.3 assists in 30.4 minutes per game career
CJ Miles: 41.9% shooting career, 38.1% last year, 32.9% from the arc career, 30.7% from the arc last year, 1.3 assists in 19.3 minutes per game for his career

This isn't to prove anything, just sort of to look at their stats. Williams is obviously a better rebounder and probably an equal defender at worst. His shooting numbers are better as well. However, his assists numbers are a big concern to me. He makes Big Al look like Stockton here. And while I know Atlanta ran a ton of iso stuff, it's still very disconcerting and I can't help but think a player isn't going to just flip the switch on all of a sudden into a seven year career.

This isn't to prove anything too. But I'd be more than happy for Mr. Williams to just stand in that corner and start drilling some 3's.

It's been a long time since someone was able to do that - and if he can somehow give us a few rebounds along the way I'd be more than happy with that.

 

[Tarkanian]

It would be awesome if he were the 3. pick of the 05 draft.

 

[Revolution 9]

The problem is, Al makes too much money to be traded right now. He also led our team in scoring and rebounding last season. He is a border-line All-star player. I would only trade Al for another border-line All-star or several really good players. It would have to probably be a trade deadline deal, which I would only pursue if Enes Kanter has clearly progressed to the point that he could be the long-term solution at Center. Remember, we drafted Enes @ #3 overall. You don't draft players that high if you don't plan on making them a starter or eventually giving them starter's/6th man's minutes (like James Harden, who was drafted #3 overall). Derrick Favors is a Power Forward and will be so as long as Al Jefferson and Enes Kanter are on the Jazz.

I understand what you are saying. Why give up Al for nothing? Hold onto the asset until his contract is up, or someone offers us something we want.
The problem I see is Corbin. I don't trust him to manage the bigs minutes for the max potential with Big Al on the roster. He'll never bench Big Al, and start Sap.
Honestly, I feel like that would be the best basketball decision for the team. Have Big Al come off the bench, and be the focus with the back ups.

When Big Al is in the game I feel like he hurts the other players around him. When he is mainly playing with starters that is a problem.
It's a tough issue. You don't want to give up his stats, or his value. If you keep him he is taking away from the development of other players, and maybe hurting team chemistry.

 

[The Midnight]

I understand what you are saying. Why give up Al for nothing? Hold onto the asset until his contract is up, or someone offers us something we want.
The problem I see is Corbin. I don't trust him to manage the bigs minutes for the max potential with Big Al on the roster. He'll never bench Big Al, and start Sap.
Honestly, I feel like that would be the best basketball decision for the team. Have Big Al come off the bench, and be the focus with the back ups.

When Big Al is in the game I feel like he hurts the other players around him. When he is mainly playing with starters that is a problem.
It's a tough issue. You don't want to give up his stats, or his value. If you keep him he is taking away from the development of other players, and maybe hurting team chemistry.

I hear what you're saying.

But I heard someone mention it in one of these threads (there are so many today!) that we could actually do quite well now that we have some 3pt shooters around Jefferson.

Basically we can now dare perimeter defenders to double Al - which should lead to a 3pt from either Marvin or Mo or Hayward (evenly spaced around the perimeter). Or if they don't double Al, then he can go 1 on 1 and he'd score over most centers in the league (using his quick footwork, etc).

Who do we keep? Jefferson or Millsap? Let the audition begin.....

 

[Revolution 9]

we could actually do quite well now that we have some 3pt shooters around Jefferson.

Agreed, if our shooting improves it will only help Jefferson, and us. I just don't know if it's enough. He'll still be a black hole, and we both know it.
I guess if we stick with him I'll go into the season hoping for the best, but expecting the Al.

 

[The Midnight]

Agreed, if our shooting improves it will only help Jefferson, and us. I just don't know if it's enough. He'll still be a black hole, and we both know it.
I guess if we stick with him I'll go into the season hoping for the best, but expecting the Al.

I think at the end of the day it comes down to KOC's comfort level with Kanter as our 3rd big.

I have a feeling it'll take 1 more year for Kanter to mature and then KOC will decide at the trade deadline whether to let Millsap or Jefferson go.

Then it becomes a contest between Jefferson VS Millsap - as in who's in our long term plan and who to let go at the deadline next year.

 

[Qman]

I think at the end of the day it comes down to KOC's comfort level with Kanter as our 3rd big.

I have a feeling it'll take 1 more year for Kanter to mature and then KOC will decide at the trade deadline whether to let Millsap or Jefferson go.

Then it becomes a contest between Jefferson VS Millsap - as in who's in our long term plan and who to let go at the deadline next year.

Hopefully summer league can build up Kanter's confidence up to the point that he can make some real progress.

 

[squareinthecircle]

I always liked Marvin Williams, and glad Mo is back too. Good things a happening - Go KOC!

 

[Harambe]

Reported on 1280 Marvin Williams for Devin Harris. Both are expiring and Marvin gives us a 3. I say hell yea

Career stats: 11.5 ppg, 5.3 rebounds, 32.9% 3pt(38.9% last year)

Not so bad. We can make this work.

 

[Fishsticks]

Toughness? One his profiles defines his defensive style, though solid, as passive.

I wonder though if proper coaching and being on a goal oriented team with a ton of structure will tap into his potential. Nobody wants to be labeled a bust. I think we will be very excited about Marvin's future with us this time next year.

 

[NAOS]

I said this in some thread just after the trade went down, but here it is again.
Marvin stands to improve if he can be disciplined by a system that simply prevents him from taking jump shots in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock. He needs to shoot the three when open, but otherwise he needs to be much more focused on taking the ball to the rim. He's too athletic and strong to do otherwise. Atlanta's JACK IT philosophy is opposite this.

I'm not going to naively expect him to improve a lot. But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for him to have a 13pt average and slightly better 2-pt shooting percentage.

 

[default]

I'm basically expecting Marvin to be like a "HEALTHY" Josh Howard. We never had a healthy Josh Howard. Good size, decent defense, can hit an open shot, above average mobility, can occasionally create his own shot, acceptable passer, ability to rebound. I would expect he should be able to get similar or barely better numbers to what he's gotten in Atlanta, but in slightly less minutes, due to being on a deeper team with a solid system.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

The problem is, Al makes too much money to be traded right now.

Here is the list of players that made more than Jefferson last season:

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Rashard Lewis (traded)
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Gilbert Arenas (traded)
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Pau Gasol (traded)
8. Carmelo Anthony
9. Amare Stoudemire
10. Joe Johnson (traded)
11. Dwight Howard (traded?)
12. Elton Brand
13. Deron Williams (traded)
14. Chris Paul (traded twice)
15. LeBron James
16. Chris Bosh (was on the trade block)
17. Dwyane Wade
18. Paul Pierce
19. Andrew Bynum (is on the trade block?)
20. Antawn Jamison
21. Rudy Gay
22. Brandon Roy
23. Chauncey Billups

 

[Stifle Tower]

Williams: 45% shooter for career, 43.2% last year, 32.9% from the arc career, 38.9% from the arc last year, 1.3 assists in 30.4 minutes per game career
CJ Miles: 41.9% shooting career, 38.1% last year, 32.9% from the arc career, 30.7% from the arc last year, 1.3 assists in 19.3 minutes per game for his career

This isn't to prove anything, just sort of to look at their stats. Williams is obviously a better rebounder and probably an equal defender at worst. His shooting numbers are better as well. However, his assists numbers are a big concern to me. He makes Big Al look like Stockton here. And while I know Atlanta ran a ton of iso stuff, it's still very disconcerting and I can't help but think a player isn't going to just flip the switch on all of a sudden into a seven year career.

Hard to be a passer when you know once you give up the ball, you'll never see it again. Willaims is in for a surprise once he sees that running back cuts to the basket will actually result in a pass inside and an easy bucket.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm basically expecting Marvin to be like a "HEALTHY" Josh Howard. We never had a healthy Josh Howard. Good size, decent defense, can hit an open shot, above average mobility, can occasionally create his own shot, acceptable passer, ability to rebound. I would expect he should be able to get similar or barely better numbers to what he's gotten in Atlanta, but in slightly less minutes, due to being on a deeper team with a solid system.

If he can be Howard minus the god awful shot selection I will be happy. I thought Howard was actually pretty good last year when he didn't shoot it every time he touched it.

 

[bigmike]

KOC & the Millers are serious about this. Both parties deserve a lot of praise for a lot of moves made in the last eighteen months. They transformed a team spiraling out of control with 1) a disgruntled All-Pro PG and 2) a legendary coach with one foot out the door into one of the best stables of young talent in the league. It’s fun to know that we’re primed to win both right now and well into the next decade.

There was chatter at the end of the regular season about whether or not we’re better off dropping a game (intentionally or not) to snag one or both of the 2012 lottery picks. Sweep or no sweep, I was psyched to see us in the playoffs. My favorite thing about this organization is our culture of winning, which is no small feat given our market size. Losing simply does not sit well with this franchise – and apparently, neither does standing pat with mediocrity. This past week really speaks to that.

PG: Mo Williams/Earl Watson/Jamaal Tinsley
SG: Gordon Hayward/Alec Burks
SF: Marvin Williams/Gordon Hayward
PF: Derrick Favors/Paul Millsap
C: Al Jefferson/Derrick Favors/Enes Kanter

This is a young, deep, long, athletic team. We will be improved defensively and have a great scoring punch at all five positions. I think we’ve got the 5 seed in our sights out West.

 

[Stifle Tower]

KOC & the Millers are serious about this. Both parties deserve a lot of praise for a lot of moves made in the last eighteen months. They transformed a team spiraling out of control with 1) a disgruntled All-Pro PG and 2) a legendary coach with one foot out the door into one of the best stables of young talent in the league. It’s fun to know that we’re primed to win both right now and well into the next decade.

There was chatter at the end of the regular season about whether or not we’re better off dropping a game (intentionally or not) to snag one or both of the 2012 lottery picks. Sweep or no sweep, I was psyched to see us in the playoffs. My favorite thing about this organization is our culture of winning, which is no small feat given our market size. Losing simply does not sit well with this franchise – and apparently, neither does standing pat with mediocrity. This past week really speaks to that.

PG: Mo Williams/Earl Watson/Jamaal Tinsley
SG: Gordon Hayward/Alec Burks
SF: Marvin Williams/Gordon Hayward
PF: Derrick Favors/Paul Millsap
C: Al Jefferson/Derrick Favors/Enes Kanter

This is a young, deep, long, athletic team. We will be improved defensively and have a great scoring punch at all five positions. I think we’ve got the 5 seed in our sights out West.

Good post. The WC is so deep. I do think we're poised to jump ahead of Denver and Dallas. Can we also pass the Clippers and Memphis? Not sure, but there's a good possibility. Clippers may be sorry they acquired Lamar. Or he could resurrect his career now that he's back in familiar surroundings. Memphis hasn't done much yet, besides shedding Mayo. That MAX contract for Gay may limit what they can do. And Randolph is getting older, so the Grizzliess could slip.

Lakers always seem to make advantageous trades. Who doesn't want to play in the purple and gold and rub elbows with the celebs? But Kobe is more injury-prone these days and they have a pretty weak bench. I'm not sure they get much back in a Gasol trade. At least they've stopped hoping for World Peace to happen. Getting rid of him is like us finally severing ties with CJ: addition by subtraction.

And when will SA finally age? Seriously, I think Ponce de Leon searched in the wrong place. The Fountain of Youth is actually in San Antonio. Call me a homer, but I think Utah has a good chance at competing for the top spot with OKC in two years. We have some terrific young players and still more assets to use: expiring of Jefferson, GS pick and $20+ million in cap space next year. And that includes re-signing Millsap.

 

[Brown Notes]

I like this move better than the Mo acquisition, and the Mo acquisition a lot better with this move. This team on paper already fits much better than the one that moped off the court in May.

Marvin replaces Andrei. Finally. I wouldn't worry about Atlanta fans cheering his departure, GMs are always looking for talent that just didn't work out hoping their grass is greener. In that regard Marv is a crazy high potential type of acquisition especially considering all we had to do was get rid of Harris. Regardless of Marvin's lack of league domination the guy has a TON of talent. Length in particular which our team was lacking at that position.

All that's left is to lose Bell and Jefferson. This league is starving for Centers, and Al is a legitimate iso scorer. If KOC can get Mo for nothing, and Marvin for Devin, something pretty nice could be on the way for Al.

 

[Doc Cherno]

KOC & the Millers are serious about this. Both parties deserve a lot of praise for a lot of moves made in the last eighteen months. They transformed a team spiraling out of control with 1) a disgruntled All-Pro PG and 2) a legendary coach with one foot out the door into one of the best stables of young talent in the league. It’s fun to know that we’re primed to win both right now and well into the next decade.

There was chatter at the end of the regular season about whether or not we’re better off dropping a game (intentionally or not) to snag one or both of the 2012 lottery picks. Sweep or no sweep, I was psyched to see us in the playoffs. My favorite thing about this organization is our culture of winning, which is no small feat given our market size. Losing simply does not sit well with this franchise – and apparently, neither does standing pat with mediocrity. This past week really speaks to that.

PG: Mo Williams/Earl Watson/Jamaal Tinsley
SG: Gordon Hayward/Alec Burks
SF: Marvin Williams/Gordon Hayward
PF: Derrick Favors/Paul Millsap
C: Al Jefferson/Derrick Favors/Enes Kanter

This is a young, deep, long, athletic team. We will be improved defensively and have a great scoring punch at all five positions. I think we’ve got the 5 seed in our sights out West.

You're forgetting Carrol and Evans, who could both get some time next year in certain situations. I like this team a lot, too, though I don't share a lot of people's interest in showing Al the door. I think he made big strides last year and I anticipate more of the same this year. Plus, he obviously likes Utah.

FWIW, I'd also have Sap starting until Favors grows past potential and gets a few more moves around the basket. This should be his year, though, and it should be Hayward's year to bust out on a consistent basis.